First Time Temple Freakout - You Weren't Prepared

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nibbler
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Re: First Time Temple Freakout - You Weren't Prepared

Post by nibbler » 16 Nov 2017, 06:36

dande48 wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 22:11
My first temple experience, I had fasted 48 hours for.
If you chased that fast with alcohol you could have had a temple experience closer to the original restored experiences. :angel:
dande48 wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 22:11
As soon as the session was over, I grabbed a V8 and a cookie. The cafeteria was closing down, and I didn't have many options. I wasn't able to keep it down for very long...
A figurative and literal tossing of the cookies. Bummer.
dande48 wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 22:11
And not meaning to offend anyone who disagrees... but those outfits look ridiculous. I do not want to be buried in them, under any circumstance; yet I have extended family members who left the Church, passed on, and had the rest of the family still insist on dressing them up in those ridiculous outfits.
I feel the same way. I'm solving that particular problem by requesting cremation. Someone may opt to put me on display with temple robes before the burning but at least whatever sentient beings that arise after humans make ourselves go extinct won't dig me up in an archaeological expedition and get the wrong ideas.
Of course I don’t want to get knocked down. But the single and sole solution to that fear is to not go anywhere where I can be knocked down. And is that not already being knocked down?
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Roy
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Re: First Time Temple Freakout - You Weren't Prepared

Post by Roy » 16 Nov 2017, 10:24

dande48 wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 22:11
I do not want to be buried in them, under any circumstance; yet I have extended family members who left the Church, passed on, and had the rest of the family still insist on dressing them up in those ridiculous outfits.
At least the church is open to this. It would be awful if the church restricted being buried in the Temple robes only to those members that were in good standing when they died. Somewhat like how people in earlier times saw being buried in the church cemetery as significant for salvation... and the church would deny it if you did not have all your Ps and Qs in place.
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Curt Sunshine
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Re: First Time Temple Freakout - You Weren't Prepared

Post by Curt Sunshine » 16 Nov 2017, 14:52

I can't imagine any actual prep that would prevent that.


I told my children about it openly and explained that it originated in a deeply sexist, misogynistic time period. I told them about the changes since the original and that I hope it continues to change until the existing elements also are eliminated.

There is VERY little that actually is forbidden to discuss (essentially just the signs and tokens), so I do detailed temple prep when I discuss it. I talk about the "high church" vs. "low church" aspect, that it all is symbolic and not literal, that it still is sexist, that its focus on everyone succeeding and entering the presence of God just by enduring to the end is beautiful, that it can be sleep-inducing for those who have done it many times, etc. My feminist, socialist daughter has been a temple worker and loved it - mostly because she is a caring helper and was prepared well before going. (This is the daughter that said to us after her first endowment session, "We focus so much on building the Kingdom of God that we forget to establish Zion.")
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SamBee
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Re: First Time Temple Freakout - You Weren't Prepared

Post by SamBee » 16 Nov 2017, 16:26

I actually like everything in the temple apart from the endowment.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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Beefster
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Re: First Time Temple Freakout - You Weren't Prepared

Post by Beefster » 16 Nov 2017, 23:06

SamBee wrote:
16 Nov 2017, 16:26
I actually like everything in the temple apart from the endowment.
I agree. Even the initiatory is preferable, but maybe I'm just saying that because the naked version predates me.

I gotta say, I've always loved doing baptisms. The spirit I feel in the baptistry really stands at odds with the endowment, where I feel a mixture of boredom, objection, and only a faint hint of the Spirit. Not to mention the nature of the rituals themselves. It's a sharp contrast.

Too bad I'm always stuck with initiatories and endowments when I proxy for ancestors. (I really hate the "names" terminology.) This is mostly so that my nephew can do the baptisms. No problem there... except that it's the temple work I like best.
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DarkJedi
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Re: First Time Temple Freakout - You Weren't Prepared

Post by DarkJedi » 17 Nov 2017, 06:12

I like initiatory as well, more so now that I don't have to be naked. There are some cool blessings given during the initiatory, especially when you contemplate them.

We recently had stake conference and as is tradition here the temple president and his wife (as well as the mission president and wife) are called on bear testimony. I swear every other sentence out of the wife's mouth was "if you remain true and faithful." I know it wasn't really every other sentence, but she said it A LOT. She may be right, I may be crazy (but it just may be a lunatic you're looking for)- but I'm not so sure that's how it works.

I was much like Curt with my children. I had to do it when my wife wasn't around because she is one of those who believes we can't talk about anything outside the temple, but I pretty much told them everything and emphasized that it is all symbolic. My youngest was recently endowed. Afterwards, and again out of earshot, I told him I knew his new name. He asked if I overheard, and I hadn't but I explained how it really works and since the new name for the day was his first given name, I knew what name they give everybody in that situation. He didn't didn't ask and I didn't tell - but it didn't shake him.

My own endowment was early 80s in the days of penalties and naked initiatories. I was very poorly prepared and I was wholly disappointed. I came out feeling like "That's it? This is what people rave about? What was the point?" Even in my more orthodox days I was not crazy about the temple, partly because of that experience. Would it have been different if somebody told me what I told my kids? I don't know because it didn't happen but I doubt it (there I go with the doubts again - I can't help it! :smile: ).
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dande48
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Re: First Time Temple Freakout - You Weren't Prepared

Post by dande48 » 17 Nov 2017, 08:18

DarkJedi wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 06:12
My wife... is one of those who believes we can't talk about anything outside the temple...
I came out feeling like "That's it? This is what people rave about? What was the point?"
Question I want to put out there, is why do you think the endowment ceremony is kept so secretive? I honestly don't feel like I had any big revelations, or insights into the universe. I was also disappointed. I've heard, "We don't talk about it, not because it's secret, but because it's sacred." But with the Church placing such a strong emphasis on missionary work, and the importance of "correctness of belief" as a requirement for salvation, that doesn't cut it for me. Even the "signs and tokens", which are the only part explicitly covenanted to keep secret, seem like a pretty poor security measure for getting into heaven. It feels like either secrecy for secrecy's sake, or secrecy to prevent the deep analysis and scrutiny that the world places on the Book of Mormon and Church History.
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SamBee
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Re: First Time Temple Freakout - You Weren't Prepared

Post by SamBee » 17 Nov 2017, 11:26

Beefster wrote:
16 Nov 2017, 23:06
SamBee wrote:
16 Nov 2017, 16:26
I actually like everything in the temple apart from the endowment.
I agree. Even the initiatory is preferable, but maybe I'm just saying that because the naked version predates me.

I gotta say, I've always loved doing baptisms. The spirit I feel in the baptistry really stands at odds with the endowment, where I feel a mixture of boredom, objection, and only a faint hint of the Spirit. Not to mention the nature of the rituals themselves. It's a sharp contrast.

Too bad I'm always stuck with initiatories and endowments when I proxy for ancestors. (I really hate the "names" terminology.) This is mostly so that my nephew can do the baptisms. No problem there... except that it's the temple work I like best.
I agree. I love the baptistry. I also like the celestial room but you generally have to go through the endowment to get there.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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nibbler
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Re: First Time Temple Freakout - You Weren't Prepared

Post by nibbler » 17 Nov 2017, 14:16

dande48 wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 08:18
Question I want to put out there, is why do you think the endowment ceremony is kept so secretive? I honestly don't feel like I had any big revelations, or insights into the universe. I was also disappointed. I've heard, "We don't talk about it, not because it's secret, but because it's sacred." But with the Church placing such a strong emphasis on missionary work, and the importance of "correctness of belief" as a requirement for salvation, that doesn't cut it for me.
I think it's people hedging what they aren't allowed to talk about just to be even "safer."

I co-taught a temple prep course about 3 or 4 years ago. It was right at the time that the church released the video about clothing used in rituals in religion, the one that showed temple clothing (folded on a table, not worn). The other teacher was in the BPric, I talked with him about showing the video in our class and he wouldn't allow it.

He was at the extreme end of not talking about anything that happens in the temple. Needless to say, I wasn't pleased with the level of instruction we gave to people preparing for the temple. The manual isn't sufficient. Our class hedged the manual. To better prepare them I would have had to have pulled people to the side and met with them outside official channels.
dande48 wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 08:18
Even the "signs and tokens", which are the only part explicitly covenanted to keep secret, seem like a pretty poor security measure for getting into heaven. It feels like either secrecy for secrecy's sake, or secrecy to prevent the deep analysis and scrutiny that the world places on the Book of Mormon and Church History.
I had to drop the notion of the signs and tokens being actual security measures to get into heaven. Maybe it's not so much the secret itself as it is a test to see if people can keep a secret?
Of course I don’t want to get knocked down. But the single and sole solution to that fear is to not go anywhere where I can be knocked down. And is that not already being knocked down?
― Craig D. Lounsbrough

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nibbler
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Re: First Time Temple Freakout - You Weren't Prepared

Post by nibbler » 17 Nov 2017, 14:18

I enjoy helping in the baptistry.

I've done exactly one initiatory. Mine. I understand it has changed, don't care. The first time was a bad enough experience to turn me off them for good.

If I never did another endowment session I wouldn't miss it. It's overlong.
Of course I don’t want to get knocked down. But the single and sole solution to that fear is to not go anywhere where I can be knocked down. And is that not already being knocked down?
― Craig D. Lounsbrough

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