Religious Right? Secularism

Public forum for topics that don't fit into the other categories.
Curt Sunshine
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Re: Religious Right? Secularism

Post by Curt Sunshine » 11 Nov 2017, 11:37

Saying feminism caused Donald Teump to get elected is an incredibly sweeping generalization, and it fits pretty well, I think, the main idea addressed in the article and our discussion. Evangelical Christians and other conservative Christians elected Trump, and shifting the responsibility/blame/whatever (depending on one's point of view) dilutes the ability to be introspective. His religious supporters ignored someone whose personal morals are the opposite of their professed beliefs, and there were a LOT of more moderate-liberal citizens who supported Bernie Sanders and didn't vote due to outrage over the DNC working hard to ensure Hillary Clinton was the nominee. Finally, Trump didn't get the majority of votes in Utah - so there was MUCH more that played into his win than singling out generic feminism.

Sure, the reactions of liberal people and groups (including feminists) to such an unqualified, flawed candidate, who admitted serial, reflexive assault of many women, hardened the religious right's determination to vote for a Republican, no matter what - but that general oppositions would have been there no matter who the final candidate was.

To return to the focus of the article, the harsh, extreme, unyielding focus on cultural warring from the right is driving many moderates to embrace more liberal alternatives than they might not have supported otherwise. When you make a war out of every disagreement or different practice, it isn't surprising when formerly neutral observers side with those who actually weren't / aren't warlike and against those who make wars out of simple attempts to be tolerant, inclusive, understanding, and charitable.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

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Re: Religious Right? Secularism

Post by dande48 » 13 Nov 2017, 06:50

Curt, of course that was a sweeping generalization. Trump won by masterfully assessing the political climate, and geniously running his campaign; that's the most direct cause. But your explaination is exactly in tune with what I was saying before. It's very easy to pass judgement on others, and very difficult to introspect. The news is still full of stories riddled with cognitive dissonance, as to why he won. Which is why Trump won the 2016 election, and will (I bet 10 to 1) win a second term.

I don't want to get too political here, but it ties in perfectly with the point made in the article (although not in the context they were aiming for). Here's what we know for sure:
-Trump won in the primaries, despite the Republican leadership's strong reservations.
-Trump won the general election, which is not won by the far left or right, but by moderates, independants, and those who can be swayed to vote against their parties candidate. This included a shocking win in liberal Flordia.
-Trump won the general election despite having record low rankings in the polls.

This strongly indicates the presense of a silent majority (an unspecified large group of people who do not express their opinions openly). They are the ones who won Trump the election. Why did they vote for him? The far left says it's because they were sexist, racist, lazy, privledged, who are too stupid to realize how much Trump goes against their invalid religious concerns. They wrongly believed the political climate was gamed against them and what they felt were their best interests (which again revolved around their sexist, privledged, neo-nazi desires). They were also probably white, fat, balding, with small hands.
Curt Sunshine wrote:
11 Nov 2017, 11:37
Sure, the reactions of liberal people and groups (including feminists) to such an unqualified, flawed candidate, who admitted serial, reflexive assault of many women...
Wonderful example. Here's how I view it. When you've got a "silent majority", it's because a huge chunk of the population is afraid to voice their true beliefs. Feminism is very loud, and lauded as courageous and heroic, even though it is supported by the vocal majority. There were accusations by the feminists against Trump, calling him fat and ugly, small-handed, sexist, misogynist, perverted, privledged, and stupid. I'm not saying those allegations aren't true... but guess who suddenly shares A LOT in common with Trump? Most white males in America. I know I personally have had all those labels placed on me. I was called sexiss at work by a feminist, for helping another woman with a particular technical problem, who asked for my help. I have been called both privledged, lazy, and stupid on account of unemployment. And I have been made fun of because of my looks, and no one cares because I'm not LGBT or a woman. Cis-men should "man up" and take it.
Curt Sunshine wrote:
11 Nov 2017, 11:37
His religious supporters ignored someone whose personal morals are the opposite of their professed beliefs...
If you invalidate the religious concerns of another Christian demographic, guess what? Remember when Trump grossly misquoted the bible while speaking at a Christian University ? The left felt calling him out would undermine his position. But what really happened, was suddenly Trump's religion was called into question and mocked (He misquoted the bible on purpose, BTW). Suddenly, he has a lot more in common with the religious right.

The rally protests are another strong example. Did you know there were very few protests at Sander's and Clinton's rallies? But there were a TON of very vocal protests against Trump at his rallies. But once again, they only cemented his win. You see, the silent majority isn't vocal about their support of Trump out of fear. Fear of retribution, fear of being bullied, fear of being physically hurt. They saw Trump being bullied, saw his supporters being bullied, and found they had a lot more in common with Trump than they ever thought. They were bullied too, and forced to keep quiet about it. But when it came to the voting booth, we saw for the first time how they truly felt.

It was a brilliant, masterful campaign on Trump's part. He was really pulling som persuasion ju-jitzu, using his opponent's strength against him. It's also why, those who demean the religion of other's, such as in this article, will never inact real change. All they'll get is the approval of a very vocal bunch, for supporting their world view. Do you want to enact real change? Do you want to solve the issues of misogeny and homophobia in America? Do you want to divert the "religious right" from the error of their ways? Here's what you do:

Find common ground. Just like Trump.
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Re: Religious Right? Secularism

Post by Roy » 13 Nov 2017, 09:46

I feel that I am a reasonably well informed citizen. I read the news almost daily. However, I do not feel like I can understand very well the forces that were at play in the 2016 election. The division in our country right now saddens me. Regardless - these political questions/ponderings are quite controversial AND do not fit the mission of this site. Therefore, from perhaps an overabundance of caution, I will lock the thread.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13