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Re: Why the Church abuses

Posted: 18 Jun 2017, 13:30
by Reuben
What Ray said. The point of sussing out reasons is to determine whether there's anything I can do to effect small changes, and then determine what that is.

Whether ignorance (not abuse) is intentional has a lot to do with whether something can be done, and what. Wilful ignorance can be really hard to overcome.

It's almost axiomatic that abuse is unintentional. No abuser sees himself as the bad guy.

ydeve, I know you've probably suffered more abuse than most of the rest of us. I'm sorry if the topic has brought you more grief, or if I seem too cavalier about it. Believe me, I'm not. Clinical detachment is one of my coping strategies.

Re: Why the Church abuses

Posted: 19 Jun 2017, 07:18
by ydeve
At this point I'd say most of the ignorance is willful, at least to some degree. This is how you get people who hear many testimonies of those who are abused and dismiss it all as lies and propaganda, how you get family members who describe their "loved ones" as having gone astray and feel the need to frequently emphasize that they disagree with their "choice of lifestyle." These people wouldn't be able to remain ignorant of they weren't resisting information that challenges their worldview. It takes a lot of willpower to do so. How conscious is the resisting? I don't know. For some, it may be more of an instictual response. Best of luck in getting past their amygdala.

Re: Why the Church abuses

Posted: 19 Jun 2017, 08:53
by SilentDawning
I think there are a lot of factors at play. We have proven phenomena such as Groupthink to worry about -- when people go along with ideas they think everyone else thinks is a good idea, it hurts good decision-making. There is conformity at work. Who would have thought to stand up in Sacrament meeting and say the priesthood ban was a mistake??? The social consequences would be significant a few years ago due to the need to conform with the culture. And then you have Milgram's authority experiment where subjects gave perceived lethal doses of electrical shocks to a confederate actor at the direction of a person in a lab coat. Combine groupthink, social conformity, and someone clothed in God's authority, and there is a recipe for believing certain principles or norms that can be harmful to people. I still think the Mountain Meadows Massacre is a case in point, albeit a rare and extreme one.

That is why I will never surrender my conscience or my agency to someone else, not even leaders in the church. If what they want me to do is so far out there and I feel I must do it, there will still have to be some kind of major confirmation or I won't commit.