YW Purity??? Not ours but close

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mom3
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YW Purity??? Not ours but close

Post by mom3 » 07 Jun 2017, 15:35

Hi - This isn't an LDS video but it mirrors so many areas our "purity" discussions cross.

Watch - Share your thoughts -

http://foreverymom.com/family-parenting ... -gregoire/
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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dande48
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Re: YW Purity??? Not ours but close

Post by dande48 » 08 Jun 2017, 10:13

I thought the video was pretty great. I am not a fan of "chastity" rings, or CTR rings for that matter.

The issue is really a balancing act. It's really important to keep our "sexual appitites" under control; it doesn't matter if you're a man, woman, teenager, or adult. The law of chastity, defined as refraining from all sexual activity outside the bonds of monogamy, is very important. It's also much easier to never commit the "sin" (any "sin"), rather than repent and never commit it again.

The Church has largely been focused on "preventon" rather than "damage control". This is because prevention is a lot easier than repentance. Everyone feels happier when they are given a good pat on the back. No one likes to be told they need to repent. It's difficult. It hurts. You feel shame. And let's be honest, sex feels FANTASTIC. There's not only the physical sensation, the excitement, but there is also the emotional connection. It's addictive. But it can also cause real problems, when it is outside a 100% commited relationship.

It's HARD to repent. It's also hard not to return to the "sin" once you've had that experience. Once upon a time, back in my college dating years, the virginity of a YW never really bothered me. My stance originally was, if she messed up in the past and repented, it's not my place to even care. I had a number of girlfriends, two of which had sex before marriage, both claimed repentance and held temple recommends. Unfortunately, both cheated on me by sleeping around... and then it became a bigger deal. I've always believed repentence is 100% possible, "white as snow", and all that. But I developed strong "trust issues", and certain "baggage" I didn't feel like I could deal with.

So the real question is, how do we encourage (not just the young, nor just the women) law of chasisty (no porn, no-fap, no extra-marital sex) as effectively as possible? How to we emphasize the seriousness of the sin, while also emphasizing the power of repentance?
"Sir, it's quite possible this asteroid is not entirely stable." - C-3PO

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Reuben
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Re: YW Purity??? Not ours but close

Post by Reuben » 08 Jun 2017, 10:22

dande48 wrote:
08 Jun 2017, 10:13
So the real question is, how do we encourage (not just the young, nor just the women) law of chasisty (no porn, no-fap, no extra-marital sex) as effectively as possible? How to we emphasize the seriousness of the sin, while also emphasizing the power of repentance?
Never, ever, ever talking about the seriousness without emphasizing the power of repentance would be a good start.
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Roy
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Re: YW Purity??? Not ours but close

Post by Roy » 08 Jun 2017, 11:34

There are some important points from the video that I want to highlight.

1) There is a double standard in how purity is taught. For the girls their bodies are made to seem like a gift that they preserve and then give to their husbands. The boys in this mindset are the consumers and the girls are the products to be consumed.

2) Purity object lessons in this regard almost always stink!!! Elizabeth Smart was a perfect spokesman for why the "chewed gum" analogy is harmful.

3) Purity is not principally about virginity but really how we conduct ourselves to reflect the light of Christ that is within us.

4) She makes a great point about the problems of stressing that virginity before marriage is required in order to be an acceptable marriage partner. The all or nothing nature makes girls that have made mistakes feel that it is a lost cause - that they are that half candybar/dirty water/chewed gum.

5) That to live one's life in deference to a future husband is to wrongly place him in the Christ's proper position. Christ is the one that paid for us. It is to Christ (and ourselves) that we should pay respect through our actions.
Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore glorify God with your body.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

unsure
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Re: YW Purity??? Not ours but close

Post by unsure » 08 Jun 2017, 13:03

dande48 wrote:
08 Jun 2017, 10:13


It's HARD to repent. It's also hard not to return to the "sin" once you've had that experience. Once upon a time, back in my college dating years, the virginity of a YW never really bothered me. My stance originally was, if she messed up in the past and repented, it's not my place to even care. I had a number of girlfriends, two of which had sex before marriage, both claimed repentance and held temple recommends. Unfortunately, both cheated on me by sleeping around... and then it became a bigger deal. I've always believed repentence is 100% possible, "white as snow", and all that. But I developed strong "trust issues", and certain "baggage" I didn't feel like I could deal with.
I know my opinion here will differ from most so I"ll just keep it to myself. :smile:

Dande - I know that was your experience but it sounds as if you're suggesting that women (or people in general) who have sex before marriage will not be faithful in a relationship. I don't agree with that at all.

Also I'm not sure actually experiencing the sin is what's really making it hard not to return to. You likely sinned because it's a temptation for you, that's what makes it hard and makes it easier to return to. For most I'd say sex is a strong temptation but I don't think experiencing it necessarily makes it harder to resist. Unless you have the "i'm broken now" mentality that can be ingrained by improper teachings through the church and decide to just do whatever you want.

I've broken the WoW in the past yet feel no desire to do so again. Why? Because it's just not my thing. It's not a temptation for me. We can still sin without temptation. I think that's an important distinction to make.

Roy
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Re: YW Purity??? Not ours but close

Post by Roy » 08 Jun 2017, 14:50

unsure wrote:
08 Jun 2017, 13:03
I know my opinion here will differ from most so I"ll just keep it to myself.
I personally would love to hear differing opinions. As long as you keep it constructive and respectful I encourage you to share.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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mom3
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Re: YW Purity??? Not ours but close

Post by mom3 » 08 Jun 2017, 15:41

Unsure - I am with Roy. If you can frame it well (even half well) let's hear it.

One point that I wish both religions (Evangelical and Ours) is that repentance part. Tomorrow, the next hour, the next week. Those are new days. A fresh sheet of paper to write your life story on. Life gives us multiple chances to move forward. I am not condoning slip shod living with a lick and prayer apology. But I think we are harder on ourselves than God is or ever will be. Yes he wants our best. He wants us to enjoy our best. He also was fully aware that NO ONE was going to get through this life unscarred.

The point that jumped at me, was the irony in the model of the girls get the heavy talk, the guys get a reminder. Though we don't do it the same. We do lay all the blame on the girl. How she dressed. Which body parts showed. How she flirted, etc. They guy is just a pawn to her wiles. Now to be fair, guys have a serious porn/masturbate issue - which is just as unbalanced and destructive.

I also found it comforting that other churches don't do it right either. Bless them. I have so many friends whose kids have taken the purity pledge, written their love note to their unkown future spouse, and pray daily that neither one of them will screw up. Ironically King David screwed up big time. And it was the second son of that pairing who got the throne. So who knows. If God is in charge, maybe we should step out of the way.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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LookingHard
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Re: YW Purity??? Not ours but close

Post by LookingHard » 08 Jun 2017, 20:59

Interesting read going to a different extreme
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/why ... mg00000313

unsure
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Re: YW Purity??? Not ours but close

Post by unsure » 08 Jun 2017, 22:29

LookingHard wrote:
08 Jun 2017, 20:59
Interesting read going to a different extreme
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/why ... mg00000313
I can't believe this is correctly quoted. A 7 year old said this??? :shock:
Disclaimer - I only skimmed

From the article:
Cosette, 7, says, “I wear what I like but I make sure my vulva is covered.”

unsure
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Re: YW Purity??? Not ours but close

Post by unsure » 08 Jun 2017, 23:11

As far as my differing opinion I've thought about it a little bit and I'm not sure what I was thinking really fits into the context of what we are focusing on here.

I don't have all the answers to how we should teach our youth about purity but I don't think we do it the right way. We need to make sure we emphasize that we always have repentance and the atonement available to us when teaching those lessons. We need to do away with the terrible analogies that make it seem like they are somehow only part of a person or forever altered if they do make a mistake.

I don't think tank tops or short that hit above the knees on women are big deal. I don't think laying the blame on women for mens thoughts is in any way a good thing. I also don't think sexual sin is as big of a deal as we make it out to be which is where I really differ but I'm not sure it fits or needs to be discussed here. (Not trying to justify my past behaviors or make it seem like sex is no big deal.)

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