Anybody get married after a FC and staylds/ be unorthodox?

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unsure
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Anybody get married after a FC and staylds/ be unorthodox?

Post by unsure » 30 May 2017, 22:20

Been thinking about this lately and one of the other threads made me think about it again but I didn't want to sidetrack it.

I'll say I don't need to be with anyone, I've always been content alone, some say too content. However I see the families/couples that are truly happy, have great relationships, awesome kids, etc and know that if I could find that, I've give pretty much anything to get it.

I'm mid 30's and know that based on my past and my current view of things, my odds of finding someone are slim to none. However I'd like to see if there is anyone here with experience with it.

I look at LDS dating sites and there are still plenty of women looking for that perfect returned missionary. It seems like it will be next to impossible to find someone that shares my values and is ok raising kids in the church but is ok with my unorthodox approach/ thoughts on quite a few things. I'm not sure LDS members who fit that mold are very large in number. I'm fine marrying a non-member but still that seems like very slim pickings.

So, anybody go through this? Any advice/thoughts? I welcome discussion from anyone obviously, not just those who've been there.

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dande48
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Re: Anybody get married after a FC and staylds/ be unorthodox?

Post by dande48 » 30 May 2017, 22:50

My wife and I both met over an LDS dating site. I was going through a Faith Crisis, when I married my wife, although I wasn't quite where I am at right now. She knew most of it, and still chose to marry me anyways. I was suprised, to be honest. But I think it really depends on the woman. I have had a few friends who have married outside the Church, but who take the view that their spouse is a wonderful person, trying their best to do what is right, and that everything will work out for the best in the end. They have incredible marriages.

But I don't think you'll have much luck marrying an orthodox TBM. I'm not sure I would've wanted to. Life isn't cut and dry, and I appreciate that my wife was willing to sit down with me, get to know me, empathize, and hear me out. I was grateful we both became good friends before getting serious or thinking about marriage.

Plenty of single women in the Church hold fast to the doctrine "If I am righteous and faithful, I am entitled to X, Y, and Z." They feel that when they meet the "right" man, they will be overcome by the Spirit, and know he's "the One". They have elevated Romance to the level of Deity. You don't want that type of girl. Go after the woman who wants to "marry her best friend". No more, no less.
"Sir, it's quite possible this asteroid is not entirely stable." - C-3PO

unsure
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Re: Anybody get married after a FC and staylds/ be unorthodox?

Post by unsure » 30 May 2017, 23:46

Yeah, I don't want to marry a TBM, that's why I feel like options are very limited. It wouldn't be fair to them and I want someone who can accept me for who I am and can accept the views I have. It wouldn't be a good fit for either of us. I don't want it to be a source of contention.

I did try to join a local facebook group in AZ that I might fit in with but my request to join has been ignored. :problem: I'm guessing it's because I don't really participate in social media and I have no postings/pics on FB but just use it to follow a couple different groups.

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nibbler
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Re: Anybody get married after a FC and staylds/ be unorthodox?

Post by nibbler » 31 May 2017, 04:10

unsure wrote:
30 May 2017, 22:20
I look at LDS dating sites and there are still plenty of women looking for that perfect returned missionary. It seems like it will be next to impossible to find someone that shares my values and is ok raising kids in the church but is ok with my unorthodox approach/ thoughts on quite a few things. I'm not sure LDS members who fit that mold are very large in number. I'm fine marrying a non-member but still that seems like very slim pickings.
I don't want to get hopes up and I don't have any idea what the reality of the situation is but consider the following:

If you're a tulip, begonia, gardenia, etc. in a store called "Roses R Us" you might feel the need to highlight all the qualities in which you are similar to a rose thinking it may increase your chances of being selected.

It's a LDS dating site. People on the site may believe that their orthodoxy and adherence to church culture may be the thing that makes them more desirable to a mate. There may be more people like you that aren't fully orthodox but play the part because that's what they believe people on the site are looking for.

I'll back petal [sic] a little. I'm positive there are many people on such sites that are looking for a person that fits the perfect Mormon mold. I''m just saying... you never know.
Of course I don’t want to get knocked down. But the single and sole solution to that fear is to not go anywhere where I can be knocked down. And is that not already being knocked down?
― Craig D. Lounsbrough

unsure
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Re: Anybody get married after a FC and staylds/ be unorthodox?

Post by unsure » 31 May 2017, 13:17

You're not getting my hopes up, no worries. :D

I'm more just kinda browsing right now. I'm so busy with school and may or may not stay in AZ when I graduate. More people my age are locked in to where they live with careers or kids so now isn't the best time to be looking for a serious relationship anyways.

Good point. I'm sure there are those people. Just makes it hard to decipher who they might be unfortunately.

DoubtingTom
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Re: Anybody get married after a FC and staylds/ be unorthodox?

Post by DoubtingTom » 31 May 2017, 15:40

I'm not sure I have good advice to offer either as it's been a long time since I've been in the dating pool, but since I'm also sin my mid-30's I'll offer my two cents on what I think my approach would be if I was going through that process again, but from where I currently am on my faith journey.

If I were to list all the things that were important to me in looking for a relationship, 10 years ago their faith would be at the top of the list. Today, I think I would put that at the bottom. Instead, I would look for someone that could share some of the same passions I have (music, travel, family, outdoor activities, concerts, etc), and also I would be interested in someone who has their own passions that they could share with me to enrich my life. I would want to find someone that could discuss things I'm interested in, challenge my view points, help me see things differently. Basically, someone who I could see myself going on a life journey with, including the faith journey. Where I am currently and where they are currently would not be important to me at this point in my life.

So, with that said, where would I start such a search? That is the golden question, isn't it? The last time I was in the dating scene most people still didn't have cell phones. How times have changed! I would consider dating sites, but not necessarily limit it to just LDS ones. And for the LDS ones, I would be upfront and honest about my faith journey so there wouldn't be unrealistic expectations. But I would also consider other non-LDS sites. And I think today, the kids are into other ways to meet like Tinder and such.

The thought of dating again terrifies me, but in some ways, I envy your position. You have the opportunity to begin a search to find someone that can love and accept you for who you are right now. I marred a TBM when I myself was a TBM. We have a great relationship but the fact that my faith has transitioned significantly has put a strain on our relationship, no doubt. My advice (and keep in mind it's worth what it cost) is to put your best authentic self out there. There are other authentic people out there also looking for someone, and I don't think where you are right now with your own faith journey should play a prominent role in looking for a partner.

My two cents and good luck!

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Reuben
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Re: Anybody get married after a FC and staylds/ be unorthodox?

Post by Reuben » 31 May 2017, 18:15

+1 on being authentic.

If you don't want to come right out and say what you don't believe, you could try using a shibboleth to attract those who think in a more nuanced way. Mention Sunstone or Dialogue, how you love the works of Quinn, etc. If you want to swing apostate by trying to snag a closet exmo, say you love riding your tapir or mention second Saturday.
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Love before dogma. Truth before loyalty. Knowledge before certainty.

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LookingHard
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Re: Anybody get married after a FC and staylds/ be unorthodox?

Post by LookingHard » 01 Jun 2017, 05:28

Reuben wrote:
31 May 2017, 18:15
+1 on being authentic.

If you don't want to come right out and say what you don't believe, you could try using a shibboleth to attract those who think in a more nuanced way. Mention Sunstone or Dialogue, how you love the works of Quinn, etc. If you want to swing apostate by trying to snag a closet exmo, say you love riding your tapir or mention second Saturday.
:D If you are female you could just show a bare shoulder on your profile pic. That will set off alarm bells.
I think I have seen tapir t-shirts. That might do the job.

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Heber13
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Re: Anybody get married after a FC and staylds/ be unorthodox?

Post by Heber13 » 01 Jun 2017, 06:23

unsure wrote:
30 May 2017, 22:20
I look at LDS dating sites and there are still plenty of women looking for that perfect returned missionary. It seems like it will be next to impossible to find someone that shares my values
I did the dating thing for a couple years after my divorce, so granted it is a little different age group I was in...late 30s to mid 40s...but I was surprised a bit with what my experience was.

Here were my observations on it:
- Whether it was websites or singles in my stake and area...I found quite a mix. Many, as you said, looking for very orthodox and high standards without compromise. Trying to have any kind of alternative doctrine discussion, even delicately, was a turn off...they did not think that way or want that and I felt they looked at it as a sign of weakness of faith, which I understood. They were orthodox. They wanted their temple companion and traditional view of things.

- There was actually a lot of people on the other end of the spectrum...fairly "anti" church in many ways...very low standards and just wanted to have fun...seemed to be open about wanting to drink alcohol and were very open to sex before marriage. I was surprised at how many I ran into that were in this category.

- Seeing those two extremes were there...I would say there was a sliding scale between those of people with all kinds of different beliefs and standards. Some who didn't really believe, but went to church and wanted their family to think they were ok at church and that wasn't the reason they were single, to others that believed but didn't take it too seriously and had compromised on some things in life...just wanted to be happy in life. My sister, for example, married a muslim. Not because she has any problems with our church really, but more was focused on having a companion that made her happy...so religion wasn't the only factor. There are people out there with that view.

- I also saw some that were very defensive. They kind of didn't really take church too serious, and felt bad being a single in a family church and it was painful going to church...so they had some issues they were dealing with...but they did not want to be taken advantage of. Hearing a guy was "unorthodox" to some meant a guy who just wants to sleep around and have one night stands and has no morals or was a wolf in sheep's clothes...and they were very untrusting. And...based on the stories I hear...there are lots of wolves out there and so they justly were being careful. They may not have really wanted the "returned missionary" that they thought wasn't that fun or made them feel judged or unworthy...but they didn't want the slimeball. Many of these...it seemed I just had to reassure them I wasn't only looking for a hookup, but that I honestly wanted what you described:
unsure wrote:
30 May 2017, 22:20
I see the families/couples that are truly happy, have great relationships, awesome kids, etc and know that if I could find that, I've give pretty much anything to get it.
...it seemed they needed to know what I wanted and I wasn't going to take advantage of them or hurt them.

So...after a while of realizing the landscape out there...I honestly came to the point that I wasn't really so unique. I have my views of the gospel and church, and my own efforts to continue trying to believe and stay active in relationships and find the things in church I agree with, even if I disagree with things, for example supporting gay marriage, or other examples of my own view of church teachings. It is more common, and there are others out there too. The Internet is accessible for lots of people...I was surprised how common these thoughts were.

I dated some of the very straight, very "TBM" singles (if we use that label...although unfair to all the differences in people I met) and didn't feel comfortable. Trying to talk to them about some things I could tell freaked them out, and so I just dated and had fun. The ones I continued to date were more the ones with more comparable views to mine. More the people I was comfortable being around and didn't have to pretend to be someone I was not.

Having said that...I didn't make my dating all about church doctrine. Date 1..."Joseph Smith used peep stones and golden plates weren't even in the room when 'translating'...what is your view of JS and revelation...go!" :think: - ya...not the best way to get to know people. That would be weird and overbearing. Right?

So...my experience...dating is hard. You want to be yourself and be accepted and liked for who you are. But, you are also trying to impress and make yourself attractive to have interest in furthering a relationship with someone you enjoy being around...so...you filter some things until it is safe to bring them out, not to be deceptive but to be understood properly. You need to be authentic and yourself...but the approach is that dance of protecting yourself while also not being a chameleon. There needs to be trust.

At the end of the day...my belief was that if I have alternative beliefs and thoughts to church...certainly I am not the only one. THere are others out there like me. Finding them is not easy, but it makes sense...I can't be the only one to think this way.

And it doesn't make sense to pretend to be someone I'm not. And it doesn't make sense to have such a narrow view that I don't try to see who I can get along with and what are the most important things in a person I want to be around.

I am not sure I found people who think exactly like me...but I gravitated towards a certain kind of person. I think for me it was...let's have fun. Let's laugh, let's enjoy life, let's be honest and upstanding and good, let's have standards and morals but enjoy life. Let's try to be spiritual but not beyond real, but stay grounded in reality in life. And I want to be "stage 5" where different viewpoints are great for me to hear and learn from...so I value differences...maybe even can learn from someone else. I don't want to be with a mirror image of myself...only one person exactly like me on Joseph Smith, homosexuality in the church, my thoughts on prophets...and make a checklist of all beliefs and only find the exact match.

No...there is value in finding someone with a different view that compliments me...not a different view that looks down on me or that is scared of my views or causes conflict and hurt with my views. But complimentary differences that enhance my personality and make me better than if I was alone. And if I can't find a person like that...it is better to be alone. But...there is hope of finding that person I want to be around that accepts me like I am.

Is it a pipe dream?

Situations vary.

But for me...I found my perfect match. Someone that loves the church and we got married outside the temple. We are active, but on our terms. She has her things with church and some issues...I have mine...neither of us want to go inactive but stay involved. I like studying the history and tenets of the teachings, she doesn't. She skips RS and I go to High Priest. Sometimes we both skip church and go hiking or camping or fishing.

We are so different about some things we feel about church...but we have common ground...and in the end...our differences make it easy for us to both feel very comfortable with each others' differences. She often tells me I'm perfect because anyone that was "Peter Priesthood" would make her feel bad about her own issues. While I don't share her exact issues...we found a safe place to express our issues with each other and find it enhances our respect and view of each other...more than if either of us didn't have issues or hid them.

In short...I found someone I can enjoy life with and be myself. I can tell her my beliefs and she respects me more because of it. She lifts my spirit when I get too critical and reminds me to love people, and focus on that goodness, and not get caught up in the negatives. She sends me positive church links from time to time because she knows what I struggle with and likes giving me positive things to remember about the church, but never in a condescending way...more in a way that she knows what I would find interesting. Kind of like when she watches sports with me...she talks about LeBron because she knows it is interesting to me, even if it isn't her favorite topic. It is a good compliment where we journey together.

That is a lot about me and my experience. PM me if you want more specifics on my experience if it helps to talk about it. I have some pretty funny dating stories...but won't bore you with them...haha. Again, I'm in a different situation being a bit older and divorced...but I dated women who had never been married and were in their late 30s and saw some things I could share more if you want.

Bottom line....you want to be willing to give a little on how you see things so you can grow. But you can't change your spots if your a leopard, and you can't force yourself to like stripes if you don't. You are who you are and should look for someone you can feel loved for who you are, and someone you can love for who they are. If you start with the idea of having fun and meeting people...you can date to find there are lots of different types of mormons out there, and even non-mormons that are really compatible too. Religion is only one part of you. It isn't everything. And should be part of the equation...but in perspective of what you want for a happy life.

Just like we sometimes feel we can't stayLDS because there is only one kind of mormon so we either leave the church or try to be TBM...that isn't real life. Real wards have multiple shades of mormons, and we can fit in with our beliefs even if others have different views. And if we see that is the case for being LDS, it applies to dating too...there are others out there with various types of views.

Focus on finding a really good person to date and marry. Religion and beliefs are only part of who they are, and we can find we can love someone with differences that are compatible, but can't force ourselves to like differences that are problematic.

Hope that helps some.

Sorry if it got too in depth. :oops:
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

unsure
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Re: Anybody get married after a FC and staylds/ be unorthodox?

Post by unsure » 01 Jun 2017, 15:49

LookingHard wrote:
01 Jun 2017, 05:28
Reuben wrote:
31 May 2017, 18:15
+1 on being authentic.

If you don't want to come right out and say what you don't believe, you could try using a shibboleth to attract those who think in a more nuanced way. Mention Sunstone or Dialogue, how you love the works of Quinn, etc. If you want to swing apostate by trying to snag a closet exmo, say you love riding your tapir or mention second Saturday.
:D If you are female you could just show a bare shoulder on your profile pic. That will set off alarm bells.
I think I have seen tapir t-shirts. That might do the job.
Rueben - I have no idea what the tapir reference or second saturday mean. :wtf: That's ok because I don't want somebody who is totally disillusioned or has that angry exmormon attitude.

I've actually been really surprised at how many women have posted pics in tank tops. There isn't a ton but I've seen more than a few. Granted it's usually from hiking or some other physical activity. But others look like everyday type shots. I think I'm pretty much done wearing garments personally except for in places I need/should to so somebody who gets that is a must. I'm sure the average woman dislikes garments more than men so that might help a little. haha

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