Baby Steps for Women's Status

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SamBee
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Re: Baby Steps for Women's Status

Post by SamBee » 30 May 2017, 16:53

I don't actually think lowering the mission age was a good idea. Nor for men.
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LookingHard
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Re: Baby Steps for Women's Status

Post by LookingHard » 31 May 2017, 05:24

I think I saw Hawkgrrrl put this on facebook with the subtitle of, "You've come a short way baby". Sums up how I feel about it. PAINFULLY slow progress - slow enough for me that I feel we are really losing ground (and the next generations).

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SilentDawning
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Re: Baby Steps for Women's Status

Post by SilentDawning » 31 May 2017, 08:26

In my own backyard, progress has been made. My daughter, although TBM in many ways believes in having a career. Popping babies isn't necessarily the top priority in her life. She also has a judgmentalism detector where she reports judgmentalism to me that she sees in others, although there are time I think it doesn't work when she points it at her self. She also loves Utah right now, but said she couldn't stand living there with all the judgmentalism about things like doing laundry on Sunday. So, we do have influence in changing the church through our family relationships if we are supportive but move our children and spouses a bit more technicolor in their thinking than their traditional black and white.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"Stage 5 is where you no longer believe the gospel as its literally or traditionally taught. Nonetheless, you find your own way to be active and at peace within it". -- SD

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

My introduction: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1576

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hawkgrrrl
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Re: Baby Steps for Women's Status

Post by hawkgrrrl » 31 May 2017, 10:38

SamBee wrote:
30 May 2017, 16:53
I don't actually think lowering the mission age was a good idea. Nor for men.
I agree that 18 is simply too young for either sex. I suspect that change was partly because outside the US, missionary service often precluded higher education. Unlike in the US, you can't just take off when you are 19 and be gone for 2 years. They are out of secondary school at age 17, and they are in a specific track (no undeclared majors while you putz around and waste 2 years on liberal arts classes in the UK). It was a huge disadvantage to have the age be 19, resulting in downstream career impacts for non-US church members on the British system. Maybe when graduating at 17 is the norm, an 18 year mission date isn't as bad, but American kids are IMO just not ready. Everyone knows the best missionaries are always the ones who went later.

But I'm sure that the church also was worried about losing YM. I think that logic backfires a little bit, though, because many who are 18 don't feel ready, and now we've attached a stigma to it.

DoubtingTom
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Re: Baby Steps for Women's Status

Post by DoubtingTom » 31 May 2017, 15:53

I like that women are being included more in WC meetings. I think we should do away entirely with PEC (we don't have it in my ward anymore anyway).

Some changes that I would like to see that I think the Church could do now include:

1) Change the rhetoric about the expectation for women to be mothers and home makers. We don't hear as much about this kind of talk, but there are sooo many GC addresses about this topic in the past and there hasn't been anything new to change this. I do think they are encouraging education more, but it still seems to be more along the lines of "get a good education so you can take care of yourself until you get married" kind of thing, rather than encouraging women to be actual contributors or (God forbid) even the bread winner in the home.

2) Start calling women to callings that are traditionally male callings, but don't necessarily have to be. These could include Sunday school presidency, ward clerk, executive secretary. Right now there are no callings that have women handling any of the finances within a ward. This sends the wrong message. I think there are callings that have traditionally been male callings but are not necessarily Priesthood callings. It would nice to see these callings offered to either gender.

3) This one might be rocking the boat too much, but the topic has already been re-introduced to the church via the essays. I would love it if the church would re-institute the policy held in the early church and into the 1900's where women could lay on hands to give blessings of healing and comfort that were through faith in Christ rather than in the Priesthood. Sisters giving blessings of comfort to sisters when visiting teaching would be amazing. Also, I love the imagery of a husband and wife laying hands on a child together to give a blessing of love, comfort, or healing that comes from both of their united faith rather than just the husband doing it. To me this would be so powerful. But alas, I think this last one would ruffle too many feathers to truly happen.

I could go on, but these are my top three changes I'd like to see, shy of ordaining women.

Ann
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Re: Baby Steps for Women's Status

Post by Ann » 02 Jun 2017, 09:10

SilentDawning wrote:
30 May 2017, 15:35
I think elevating the Ward council over PEC was a step in the right direction. I understand WC meets more frequently than PEC, which gives women leaders more of a voice than they had in the past.
I like this one a lot. No one likes meeting just to meet. There may be more of a "let's work this out in the meeting we already have" mindset.

As part of his testimony our bishop recently mentioned a ward council discussion where he had been insisting on a point. The Primary pres. had better info.... Bottom line of the anecdote was: this is a better, wiser way for ward leadership. I liked that he was willing to tell the story at all.
"Preachers err by trying to talk people into belief; better they reveal the radiance of their own discovery." - Joseph Campbell

"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." - Marcel Proust

"Therefore they said unto him, How were thine eyes opened? He answered and said unto them, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes...." - John 9:10-11

51Mag
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Re: Baby Steps for Women's Status

Post by 51Mag » 04 Jun 2017, 11:02

SilentDawning wrote:
30 May 2017, 15:35
I think elevating the Ward council over PEC was a step in the right direction. I understand WC meets more frequently than PEC, which gives women leaders more of a voice than they had in the past.
This drove me nuts! I couldn't get behind having any PEC meetings. I actually started having them once a quarter because it was just another WC meeting without the women being represented. Now that could have been my fault in the direction of the meeting but in all seriousness, PEC is no different that WC. I loved and looked forward to having the input of our RS, YW and Primary presidents.

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SilentDawning
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Re: Baby Steps for Women's Status

Post by SilentDawning » 04 Jun 2017, 13:11

51Mag wrote:
04 Jun 2017, 11:02
SilentDawning wrote:
30 May 2017, 15:35
I think elevating the Ward council over PEC was a step in the right direction. I understand WC meets more frequently than PEC, which gives women leaders more of a voice than they had in the past.
This drove me nuts! I couldn't get behind having any PEC meetings. I actually started having them once a quarter because it was just another WC meeting without the women being represented. Now that could have been my fault in the direction of the meeting but in all seriousness, PEC is no different that WC. I loved and looked forward to having the input of our RS, YW and Primary presidents.
I was trying to brainstorm what an agenda would look like at PEC. Maybe have short, individual serial interviews with the YM pres, HPGL, and EQP and then have a joint meeting to discuss any common issues. Perhaps a big picture HT meeting. Maybe talking about a schedule for how the sacrament is passed, or perhaps a priesthood campout or something. But I do see how it duplicates everything.

I had to write a paper on my personal leadership style, and I came out with a number of ways I would choose to lead -- and one was on a platform of efficiency. Remote meetings, conference calls, no duplication across meetings, etcetera. This may have led to simply doing what you said -- once per quarter meetings, or maybe cut WC short and have a short PEC at the front or back end of WC just to tell the Stake "we did it" once a quarter- ie, check the box.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"Stage 5 is where you no longer believe the gospel as its literally or traditionally taught. Nonetheless, you find your own way to be active and at peace within it". -- SD

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

My introduction: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1576

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DarkJedi
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Re: Baby Steps for Women's Status

Post by DarkJedi » 04 Jun 2017, 14:17

51Mag wrote:
04 Jun 2017, 11:02
SilentDawning wrote:
30 May 2017, 15:35
I think elevating the Ward council over PEC was a step in the right direction. I understand WC meets more frequently than PEC, which gives women leaders more of a voice than they had in the past.
This drove me nuts! I couldn't get behind having any PEC meetings. I actually started having them once a quarter because it was just another WC meeting without the women being represented. Now that could have been my fault in the direction of the meeting but in all seriousness, PEC is no different that WC. I loved and looked forward to having the input of our RS, YW and Primary presidents.
At the stake level there is a little difference because the PEC has to sustain some actions of the SP (Melchizedek Priesthood ordinations, all callings except bishops, etc.). I agree that at the ward level there isn't a discernible difference. Starting last year my stake started having monthly stake council, with one regular monthly high council meeting (AKA PEC) and one shortened one immediately following stake council for the sole purpose of doing business (no discussion or "council"). I have to say I like it and very much appreciate the perspective of the sisters, who really do have a say in things like what the topics at stake conference will be. And we have some sisters who are not at all afraid to speak their minds and offer opinions even if they think the SP might not agree - and I appreciate that as well. Most of our wards also have more frequent ward councils and less frequent PECs these days as well - which I also appreciate. The only downside I see to this is it means more meetings for some sisters, but I think the positives outweigh this one downside.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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