Women's Salvation Dependent on the Man?

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SilentDawning
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Women's Salvation Dependent on the Man?

Post by SilentDawning » 30 May 2017, 12:06

Sheldon posted an article on the skewed Female to Male ratio ( more females than males) in Utah. Here is an excerpt that is a bit off the beaten path for that article, so I thought I should create a new thread focused on this statement.
“Men have all these options, and the women spend hours getting ready for dates ]because their eternal salvation and exaltation depends on marrying a righteous, priesthood-holding man.”
Does our religion actually teach this, or is it a Mormon cultural belief that is technically, not part of the doctrine?
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"Stage 5 is where you no longer believe the gospel as its literally or traditionally taught. Nonetheless, you find your own way to be active and at peace within it". -- SD

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

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nibbler
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Re: Women's Salvation Dependent on the Man?

Post by nibbler » 30 May 2017, 12:44

Here's a BRM quote:
What we say for Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob we say also for Sarah, Rebekah, and Rachel, the wives who stood at their sides and who with them were true and faithful in all things. Men are not saved alone, and women do not gain an eternal fullness except in and through the continuation of the family unit in eternity. Salvation is a family affair.
If you take the sealing as a requirement to be exalted to its extremes we'd probably say it goes both ways. "Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord."

If you wanted to parse the language even more you could draw distinctions between "exalted" and "saved." If exalted means receiving the highest degree of glory in the highest kingdom I'd say that we are dependent on one another, we can't go it alone. If saved means we receive some sort of glory in the afterlife then we can apparently be single for that.
“We understand how dangerous a mask can be. We all become what we pretend to be.”
― Patrick Rothfuss


“No man, for any considerable period, can wear one face to himself and another to the multitude, without finally getting bewildered as to which may be the true.”
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Roy
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Re: Women's Salvation Dependent on the Man?

Post by Roy » 30 May 2017, 12:44

I believe that the LDS teaching is that Exaltation and Godhood is something that single people cannot attain. Therefore if a woman does not get married she seems to be significantly stunted in her eternal growth/progression prospects.

The good news is that we believe that these impediments will be removed in the afterlife/resurrection where a worthy husband will be made available for all worthy females in need.

Interestingly, men who never marry do not seem to have the same assurances.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

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LookingHard
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Re: Women's Salvation Dependent on the Man?

Post by LookingHard » 30 May 2017, 13:53

Roy wrote:
30 May 2017, 12:44
I believe that the LDS teaching is that Exaltation and Godhood is something that single people cannot attain. Therefore if a woman does not get married she seems to be significantly stunted in her eternal growth/progression prospects.

The good news is that we believe that these impediments will be removed in the afterlife/resurrection where a worthy husband will be made available for all worthy females in need.

Interestingly, men who never marry do not seem to have the same assurances.
At first this seems rather charitable that worthy women will have an eternal husband, but then that moves into a discussion of eternal polygamy. Yuck.

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nibbler
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Re: Women's Salvation Dependent on the Man?

Post by nibbler » 30 May 2017, 14:23

Roy wrote:
30 May 2017, 12:44
Interestingly, men who never marry do not seem to have the same assurances.
Carried over from the LDS dating crisis thread...

The single men I know have talked about how marriage was presented to them as a duty/responsibility. A narrative that has haunted them is that failing to get married was presented to them as a dereliction of duty. Women got the second chance because they ended up single through no fault of their own.

I'm not saying this is a teaching, current or past, but I've heard this sentiment expressed by different people.

Does some of this come from ideas presented/implied by D&C 76? Here I go quoting BRM again:
This life is the time and day of our probation. After this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed.

“For those who do not have an opportunity to believe and obey the holy word in this life, the first chance to gain salvation will come in the spirit world. If those who hear the word for the first time in the realms ahead are the kind of people who would have accepted the gospel here, had the opportunity been afforded them, they will accept it there. …

“… Those who reject the gospel in this life and then receive it in the spirit world go not to the celestial, but to the terrestrial kingdom.
It fits with some of the feelings shared by my single male friends, where the context is that men hold all the power/responsibility for ensuring marriage (not to derail the thread and turn it into a discussion into about how sexist that is).
“We understand how dangerous a mask can be. We all become what we pretend to be.”
― Patrick Rothfuss


“No man, for any considerable period, can wear one face to himself and another to the multitude, without finally getting bewildered as to which may be the true.”
― Nathaniel Hawthorne

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dande48
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Re: Women's Salvation Dependent on the Man?

Post by dande48 » 30 May 2017, 15:05

Ezra Taft Benson said, back in 1988,
"I also recognize that not all women in the Church will have an opportunity for marriage and motherhood in mortality. But if those of you in this situation are worthy and endure faithfully, you can be assured of all blessings from a kind and loving Heavenly Father—and I emphasize all blessings.

I assure you that if you have to wait even until the next life to be blessed with a choice companion, God will surely compensate you. Time is numbered only to man. God has your eternal perspective in mind."
While the Church's doctrine has stated that neither man nor woman will be able to be exalted without an eternal companion, those who have the righteous desire to an eternal marriage will be blessed with it in the next life. You could really flip the quote, and it would be just as true.
“...[Man's] eternal salvation and exaltation depends on marrying a righteous, priesthood-honoring woman.”
I swear there have been dozens of priesthood talks, telling all single men to put themselves out there, and find themselves an eternal companion. And there have also been dozens of talks telling single LDS women not to lose heart, but to be patient and trust in the Lord, and they will find their husbands. If a righteous woman is not married, it is the fault of the men. The weight is 90% on us.
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Curt Sunshine
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Re: Women's Salvation Dependent on the Man?

Post by Curt Sunshine » 31 May 2017, 00:26

Co-dependent is the official doctrine.
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Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

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hawkgrrrl
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Re: Women's Salvation Dependent on the Man?

Post by hawkgrrrl » 31 May 2017, 12:13

The assumption of the generation our leaders belong to is that women are the passive ones who are asked and men do all the asking. That's not always the case, but it certainly is 100% the case in all their minds (and experience).

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SilentDawning
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Re: Women's Salvation Dependent on the Man?

Post by SilentDawning » 31 May 2017, 18:05

Let's talk about the situation where a woman marries a man in the temple. The man falls off the wagon and does not qualify for celestial kingdom. Is the woman out of luck in terms of getting the highest level of exhaltation?
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"Stage 5 is where you no longer believe the gospel as its literally or traditionally taught. Nonetheless, you find your own way to be active and at peace within it". -- SD

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

My introduction: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1576

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LookingHard
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Re: Women's Salvation Dependent on the Man?

Post by LookingHard » 01 Jun 2017, 05:58

SilentDawning wrote:
31 May 2017, 18:05
Let's talk about the situation where a woman marries a man in the temple. The man falls off the wagon and does not qualify for celestial kingdom. Is the woman out of luck in terms of getting the highest level of exhaltation?
I think many people worry that is the case. Even if that isn't doctrine, many people feel that way as it is not unheard of for people to be told, "Your husband is an apostate? You MUST divorce him and find a righteous husband that you can go into the highest level of heaven." But that advice is fraught with issue both from it being wise to break up a family over that and the prospects for the wife (see The LDS Dating Crisis)

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