GC Talk and The Rest of the Story

Public forum for topics that don't fit into the other categories.
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Heber13
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Re: GC Talk and The Rest of the Story

Post by Heber13 » 29 May 2017, 14:14

AP,
I teach Gospel Principles sometimes...wanna hear a story someone said in my class when we were talking about the holy ghost?

She said,
My daughter usually doesn't do this, but on the ride home from BYU saw a hitch hiker and felt impressed to pick him up. She was with her room mate and felt safe, having the impression it was a good idea.

They traveled several hours and at one exit let the dirty gentleman out on his exit.

As he got out, he said "I just want you both to know I think you are good people." He then pulled out a knife and said, "My plan was originally to kill you both. But I just felt I couldn't, you're good people."

Sometimes we don't realize how the spirit is working to protect us from harm, and what a scary world it is!
:think:

I just moved on in the lesson.

Some people are trying hard to make sense of things in this world.

To me...what makes sense is to not pick up hitchhikers. Then I don't need the spirit to protect me from things I've invited into my car!

(also...I doubt that really happened)

Why do people at church want stories to tell so badly??? Does it help them identify with miraculous stories in the scriptures we read about and want to have in our life?

Also...I expect more from GAs and church leaders than just someone in class...but...I also think they are prone to the same thing not realizing they are doing that. I expect more from GAs...but honestly...not much more. It shouldn't be that way...but it seems it is.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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nibbler
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Re: GC Talk and The Rest of the Story

Post by nibbler » 29 May 2017, 16:05

Heber13 wrote:
29 May 2017, 14:14
Why do people at church want stories to tell so badly???
We get to be the center of attention for a little while?

Not that there's anything wrong with that. People want to be special and want to feel special... and people should get that opportunity.
all sinners, a future, all saints, a past, beginning, the ending, return to ash

NightSG
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Re: GC Talk and The Rest of the Story

Post by NightSG » 29 May 2017, 17:38

amateurparent wrote:
29 May 2017, 06:32
Such trickster habits are expected when promoting shady loans and business practices. In certain public speaking venues, hyperbole and dramatic license are expected and encouraged. I expect a different and better standard out of ecclesiastical leaders who claim to represent God, who are speaking in an ecclesiastical setting and who are called the Lords Appointed.

Comments state that GC talks should all be read with a grain of salt, an entire shaker, or a salt truck or two. What does that say about the authorities of the entire religion? At what point do we put church authority publications down on the Sci Fi/Fantasy shelf?
Might as well go ahead and put the Gospel Principles manual there. This is pretty much exactly what chapter 31 is talking about.

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SilentDawning
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Re: GC Talk and The Rest of the Story

Post by SilentDawning » 30 May 2017, 06:00

Also, Truth Restored is another one. I read that a few years ago and I was amazed at how the bad parts of our history (things for which we should take responsibility, that went wrong) were omitted. Further, it was laced with faith promoting stories and testimonies of pioneers. One thing that really got me was the explanation that Joseph Smith was finally incarcerated in Nauvoo on a "trumped up charge". On the PBS.org special on the Mormons, a non-Mormon historian revealed that it was because he ordered the destruction of the Expositor printing press. Actual destruction of property and a charge of disturbing the peace.

At that point I started realizing that there wasn't nearly as much "truth restored" as the title of the book implied.

And of course, the Mountain Meadows Massacre wasn't even mentioned. It's kind of like what goes on at various companies I've worked for. You have these employee meetings where they share news affecting the company -- acquisitions, reorganizations, downsizings, new programs, but they can't be nakedly honest with you for fear you'll jump ship. Even bad financial results are sometimes glossed over. But to get the real scoop on how the company is doing you have to go to the third party sources such as the analysts, editorial opinion, or the actual SEC filings of the financials by business unit if in a conglomerate.

And of course, the oft-quoted idea that "no one is paid" in our church -- that it's a lay ministry. At the local level that is true, but not as you rise higher up, and I'm not sure how far. No one bedgrudges paying people who work full time for the church, but to pass it off as a completely lay ministry isn't right. And last of all, I grew up believing that a paid ministry (like that local minister of a mainstream religion down the street) is priestcraft -- something condemned in the Book of Mormon. Now we have to dance around/qualify what priestcraft means since the Mormons do it too. But for years I was led to believe that priestcraft was the moniker we gave for any person who was not a lay minister. To find we have paid ministers in our church was flooring to me. I was in gospel doctrine a couple years ago, and a really bright lawyer was teaching the class and said "no one is paid". One of our more liberal members put her hand up and said "NO, that's not right, GA's get a living allowance stipend". The teacher, again, who was really a bright man, said "No, they don't, no one is paid". Even he believed it and no one has ever tried to correct this misperception to the point he was promulgating the error to his entire class.

It's as if remaining silent about the truth is considered "honest" if it promotes faith. That does not sit well with me.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"Stage 5 is where you no longer believe the gospel as its literally or traditionally taught. Nonetheless, you find your own way to be active and at peace within it". -- SD

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

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Roy
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Re: GC Talk and The Rest of the Story

Post by Roy » 30 May 2017, 09:34

Heber13 wrote:
29 May 2017, 14:05
We build stories that try to help us make sense of things in life.
Yes, and not just through religion. It appears that this drive to build stories and narratives that seem to give order, purpose, and meaning to the world around us is hardwired into our brains.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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Heber13
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Re: GC Talk and The Rest of the Story

Post by Heber13 » 30 May 2017, 10:32

Roy wrote:
30 May 2017, 09:34
Heber13 wrote:
29 May 2017, 14:05
We build stories that try to help us make sense of things in life.
Yes, and not just through religion. It appears that this drive to build stories and narratives that seem to give order, purpose, and meaning to the world around us is hardwired into our brains.
I agree. I also think there is an element of bonding with others. We share the experience, and get support...even if the story isn't 100% accurate. There are limits on credibility with others if stories are too far fetched...but we seem to allow some leeway on people we trust.

My mom used to tell me...
Just listen to what I meant to say...not what I said. ;)
She wanted me to not get hung up on details...just understand the gist of what she was saying. We do that in story telling. I'm a buzzkill if I nit-pick her stories for accuracy.

That also has a big impact on how the scriptures were written, I think. They were stories with a purpose.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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