Interesting Podcast about Active Information Avoidance

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LookingHard
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Interesting Podcast about Active Information Avoidance

Post by LookingHard » 27 May 2017, 06:21

I really find it interesting all the theories that sure seem to play out in the church. My wife won't even read the essays. I have not pushed, but I told her if she wants to understand the issues I have, that would be a good place to start. I assumed she would at least read them herself, but she does not want to touch them with a 10 foot pole.

What I see from this is that she fears where it will take her. But this podcast from "You are not so smart" talks about Active Information Avoidance and further explains a bit of what is going on.

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SilentDawning
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Re: Interesting Podcast about Active Information Avoidance

Post by SilentDawning » 27 May 2017, 14:38

Nietchze was once quoted as saying "faith is for people who don't want to admit the truth".
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"Stage 5 is where you no longer believe the gospel as its literally or traditionally taught. Nonetheless, you find your own way to be active and at peace within it". -- SD

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

My introduction: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1576

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dande48
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Re: Interesting Podcast about Active Information Avoidance

Post by dande48 » 27 May 2017, 17:45

We all do it. It's one of the many flaws in human psychology.

It's just MUCH easier to see it in others, and look down on them for it. But catching it in ourselves... that's where it really counts. I love Nietchze, but I think the statement applies far beyond faith. I prefer Nephi's quote. "The guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center."
"Sir, it's quite possible this asteroid is not entirely stable." - C-3PO

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SilentDawning
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Re: Interesting Podcast about Active Information Avoidance

Post by SilentDawning » 27 May 2017, 18:54

dande48 wrote:
27 May 2017, 17:45
We all do it. It's one of the many flaws in human psychology.

It's just MUCH easier to see it in others, and look down on them for it. But catching it in ourselves... that's where it really counts. I love Nietchze, but I think the statement applies far beyond faith. I prefer Nephi's quote. "The guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center."
I'm constantly monitoring myself to make sure that my disagreement with the church isn't about justifying sin, or feeling wounded that valid criticism is leveled at me.

So far, I feel that my attitudes are not a result of "taking the truth to be hard". They are there as a result of reasoned reconstruction over the years. Also a reaction to testing certain practices and finding they come up short.

I think Nephi's quote is interpreted by many TBM's as a nice, cozy reason why unorthodox people like me are the way we are -- we couldn't live the commandments so we justify our decisions so we can sin.

Not so, and fortunately, we have Uchdorft to stand up for us on that count....someone should pin his talk somewhere here on StaylDS where he told the general membership that disaffection is not always about sin -- in his own words "it's not that simple"...
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"Stage 5 is where you no longer believe the gospel as its literally or traditionally taught. Nonetheless, you find your own way to be active and at peace within it". -- SD

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

My introduction: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1576

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dande48
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Re: Interesting Podcast about Active Information Avoidance

Post by dande48 » 27 May 2017, 20:50

SilentDawning wrote:
27 May 2017, 18:54
So far, I feel that my attitudes are not a result of "taking the truth to be hard". They are there as a result of reasoned reconstruction over the years. Also a reaction to testing certain practices and finding they come up short.

I think Nephi's quote is interpreted by many TBM's as a nice, cozy reason why unorthodox people like me are the way we are -- we couldn't live the commandments so we justify our decisions so we can sin.

Not so, and fortunately, we have Uchdorft to stand up for us on that count....someone should pin his talk somewhere here on StaylDS where he told the general membership that disaffection is not always about sin -- in his own words "it's not that simple"...
I interpret the term "guilty", not as those guilty of "sin" (however defined), but anyone who's outlook and worldview is contrary to things as they really are. Hence, many members of the Church refuse to acknowledge even the most obvious discrepancies in Church history and doctrine. And yet, for myself, sometimes I fail to realize when I'm being unjustly harsh or antagonistic towards the Church. Like you said, the truth is "much more complicated."

Fortunately, just by learning about our psychological weakpoints, can greatly fortify against them.
"Sir, it's quite possible this asteroid is not entirely stable." - C-3PO

ydeve
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Re: Interesting Podcast about Active Information Avoidance

Post by ydeve » 28 May 2017, 09:08

Like SD mentioned, I've seen the ".... take the truth to be hard" quote used as a form of victim blaming, as a way of dismissing or turning a cold shoulder to those who have been hurt by church teachings or disobey commandments that they cannot in good conscience follow. It can also be problematic when used in introspection, since if you are coming from the same TBM paradigm, you can take what your conscience is telling you as "proof" that you are wicked. I prefer the Nietchze quote if you interpret "faith" in context to mean belief without or in spite of evidence, since that focuses on making sure the reasons for a belief are valid instead of giving emotions (which can have many different causes) the heavier weight.

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dande48
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Re: Interesting Podcast about Active Information Avoidance

Post by dande48 » 28 May 2017, 12:40

ydeve wrote:
28 May 2017, 09:08
Like SD mentioned, I've seen the ".... take the truth to be hard" quote used as a form of victim blaming, as a way of dismissing or turning a cold shoulder to those who have been hurt by church teachings or disobey commandments that they cannot in good conscience follow. It can also be problematic when used in introspection, since if you are coming from the same TBM paradigm, you can take what your conscience is telling you as "proof" that you are wicked. I prefer the Nietchze quote if you interpret "faith" in context to mean belief without or in spite of evidence, since that focuses on making sure the reasons for a belief are valid instead of giving emotions (which can have many different causes) the heavier weight.
Nietchze meant "faith" in the context of religion. He was very against Christianity, in particular, marking it as a vice next to alcohol. But I agree, the Nephi statement is often taken out of context, and used to "pinpoint" the "faults" of inactive members. Reverting back to the original topic, we are much more likely to see the faults in others, than the faults in ourselves.
"Sir, it's quite possible this asteroid is not entirely stable." - C-3PO

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Interesting Podcast about Active Information Avoidance

Post by Curt Sunshine » 28 May 2017, 22:21

Motes and beams and all that jazz.

Having said that, as long as we are willing and committed to trying to see and understand our own faults, pointing out natural faults in others is part of true compassion. The key is how it's done - concerning both intent and method.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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