Do You Believe in the Literal Christ?

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AmyJ
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Joined: 27 Jul 2017, 05:50

Re: Do You Believe in the Literal Christ?

Post by AmyJ » 23 Apr 2018, 10:00

Roy wrote:
23 Apr 2018, 09:48
Katzpur wrote:
22 Apr 2018, 07:44
Is anybody really certain of anything?
I know I think, therefor I know I am .... I'm not certain about the rest of you all. :mrgreen:
I know I think (and I think incomplete and incorrect thoughts), therefore I know I am incomplete and incorrect in my faith narrative regularly. I am certain that the world is not really the way I perceive it (and that I am in good company with the rest of humanity whether they acknowledge it or not) :P
However, that got me to this point, and potentially to a more enlightened perspective... so... baby steps in a spiritual direction I go ;)

Roy
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Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Do You Believe in the Literal Christ?

Post by Roy » 23 Apr 2018, 10:09

Beautiful expansion on the thought Amy.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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Katzpur
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Joined: 26 Jul 2009, 08:40
Location: Salt Lake City

Re: Do You Believe in the Literal Christ?

Post by Katzpur » 25 Apr 2018, 10:10

AmyJ wrote:
23 Apr 2018, 10:00
Roy wrote:
23 Apr 2018, 09:48
Katzpur wrote:
22 Apr 2018, 07:44
Is anybody really certain of anything?
I know I think, therefor I know I am .... I'm not certain about the rest of you all. :mrgreen:
I know I think (and I think incomplete and incorrect thoughts), therefore I know I am incomplete and incorrect in my faith narrative regularly. I am certain that the world is not really the way I perceive it (and that I am in good company with the rest of humanity whether they acknowledge it or not) :P
However, that got me to this point, and potentially to a more enlightened perspective... so... baby steps in a spiritual direction I go ;)
When I was a teenager, I used to tell my two best friends that all of this wasn't really happening. I said, "I exist, but right now I'm just dreaming, and you two are just figments of my imagination." I wasn't saying it to be mean, but it really set them both off! :lol:
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." ~Rudyard Kipling ~

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DarkJedi
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Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: Do You Believe in the Literal Christ?

Post by DarkJedi » 25 Apr 2018, 14:58

Katzpur wrote:
25 Apr 2018, 10:10
When I was a teenager, I used to tell my two best friends that all of this wasn't really happening. I said, "I exist, but right now I'm just dreaming, and you two are just figments of my imagination." I wasn't saying it to be mean, but it really set them both off! :lol:
I've had that thought before, and in fact it first occurred to me as a teenager. What if we are all just St. Elsewhere?
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

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Katzpur
Posts: 318
Joined: 26 Jul 2009, 08:40
Location: Salt Lake City

Re: Do You Believe in the Literal Christ?

Post by Katzpur » 26 Apr 2018, 17:03

DarkJedi wrote:
25 Apr 2018, 14:58
Katzpur wrote:
25 Apr 2018, 10:10
When I was a teenager, I used to tell my two best friends that all of this wasn't really happening. I said, "I exist, but right now I'm just dreaming, and you two are just figments of my imagination." I wasn't saying it to be mean, but it really set them both off! :lol:
I've had that thought before, and in fact it first occurred to me as a teenager. What if we are all just St. Elsewhere?
Scary thought, huh?
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." ~Rudyard Kipling ~

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Heber13
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Location: In the Middle

Re: Do You Believe in the Literal Christ?

Post by Heber13 » 26 Apr 2018, 23:30

I've been thinking....

Do you think it matters one way or another? It can be fun to talk about...but day to day life...does it matter?
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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dande48
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Re: Do You Believe in the Literal Christ?

Post by dande48 » 27 Apr 2018, 05:29

Katzpur wrote:
26 Apr 2018, 17:03
DarkJedi wrote:
25 Apr 2018, 14:58
Katzpur wrote:
25 Apr 2018, 10:10
When I was a teenager, I used to tell my two best friends that all of this wasn't really happening. I said, "I exist, but right now I'm just dreaming, and you two are just figments of my imagination." I wasn't saying it to be mean, but it really set them both off! :lol:
I've had that thought before, and in fact it first occurred to me as a teenager. What if we are all just St. Elsewhere?
Scary thought, huh?
Heber13 wrote:
26 Apr 2018, 23:30
Do you think it matters one way or another? It can be fun to talk about...but day to day life...does it matter?
For some people, it's a matter of their being a loving, father-like (and/or mother-like) entity at the center of the universe, directing our lives to the best possible outcome... Or... The Nuclear Chaos, a being who rests at the center of all of existence, the "Blind Idiot God", who dreams all of reality, yet knows not what he dreams (see Lovecraft's "Azathoth").

So I guess the question boils down to, if a person's belief completely contradicts reality, does it matter in their day-to-day life? I'd say no. If a wrong belief gives life meaning, but life by nature is itself meaningless, does that life still have meaning? How does a belief that all of reality could at any moment blip out of existence effect your day-to-day life? If true, does knowing your life has no inherent meaning or purpose, that all is chaos and all will end, free you or fill you with despair? Is it better to believe in a guiding Father/Mother god, even if one never existed, so as to imbue meaning and purpose in a meaningless world?
Last edited by dande48 on 27 Apr 2018, 09:28, edited 2 times in total.
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

"Even though there are no ways of knowing for sure, there are ways of knowing for pretty sure."
-Lemony Snicket

AmyJ
Posts: 627
Joined: 27 Jul 2017, 05:50

Re: Do You Believe in the Literal Christ?

Post by AmyJ » 27 Apr 2018, 05:58

Heber13 wrote:
26 Apr 2018, 23:30
I've been thinking....

Do you think it matters one way or another? It can be fun to talk about...but day to day life...does it matter?
I think it does matter in establishing a community identity and an individual place within that community. Being able to say "I'm a Christian" is a lot like being able to give the secret password for entry - it establishes you belong, and a few general specific common beliefs (for example, a shared knowledge/understanding of Jesus Christ - his work and ministry, a unique spiritual experience that brought a person trust in Jesus Christ as their personal savior). That is one of the reasons why other churches have a hard time seeing us as a Christian community - we don't have that same shared knowledge/understanding of specific circumstances, and we define a lot of other principles differently and put them in a different priority order.

I think it matters less than it used to because communities are no longer limited to locale - primarily due to the internet. This is good because it gives people who would normally be outcasts an environment where they can shine, be themselves, provide specialized informal life-skills training/tips, and have a special interest to be passionate about. It also means that the local communities need to change to be "relevant" - either by having an internet presence, adding items of interest to a diverse amount of people, and/or becoming more entertaining.

Churches seem to be some of the last to change in this area because they feel that they have the right from God not to change and that the organization sets the terms as revealed by God. For some people, the flavor of doctrine matters to a varying degree - everyone has faith narratives that accept and reject certain principles. I feel that the LDS church has made quite a few strides in these areas over the last 5 years, but that the LDS church is losing people because the doctrinal faith narrative of the church has not changed as much as the people have, and now points to principles that people reject and feel deeply are incorrect doctrines/teachings.

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