Missionary Rules

Public forum for topics that don't fit into the other categories.
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DarkJedi
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Re: Missionary Rules

Post by DarkJedi » 30 Mar 2017, 09:37

Heber13 wrote:
30 Mar 2017, 09:26
if only more missionaries understood the difference between correlation and causation!
The was actually the BYU speaker's point (not specifically to missionaries). He was pointing out misunderstanding correlation and causation is a tool of Satan. His talk actually bugged me because it was much more about Satan than Christ, but that's another topic.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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nibbler
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Re: Missionary Rules

Post by nibbler » 30 Mar 2017, 09:44

I was only poking fun at the common correlations that we sometimes draw.
DarkJedi wrote:
30 Mar 2017, 09:37
He was pointing out misunderstanding correlation and causation is a tool of Satan.
Ha. What isn't? I'd hate to see that guy's toolbox.

At some point you have to wonder whether the quantity of tools at Satan's disposal begins to be a problem. Like Satan is looking for his auger with the 1/8th bit (P.S. I don't know if that's a thing) but he can't find it because there's too many tools to dig though.

Keep it simple. When all you have is a hammer everything becomes a nail.
It’s strange. When I couldn’t find the drop and the plague came, you seemed so far away I would not ever be able to find you again. But I know now that you were here all along, and that nothing, not the Black Death nor seven hundred years, nor death nor things to come nor any other creature could ever separate me from your caring and concern. It was with me every minute.
― Connie Willis , Doomsday Book

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DarkJedi
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Re: Missionary Rules

Post by DarkJedi » 30 Mar 2017, 09:49

If you're in the right mood you could go check out his devotional Nibbler. He went on for a solid 10 minutes about the tools of Satan.

One of the tools of MPs is making the correlation between strict obedience and the blessings of baptisms. I do recognize that MPs have a much smaller toolbox with which to coax obedience, however. And of course Satan is the quintessential villain, so he's easy to vilify.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

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Heber13
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Re: Missionary Rules

Post by Heber13 » 30 Mar 2017, 10:46

he is constantly updating his toolset with ingenuity. You gotta give it to the guy...he is relentless!
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

squarepeg
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Re: Missionary Rules

Post by squarepeg » 31 Mar 2017, 09:55

Heber13 wrote:if only more missionaries understood the difference between correlation and causation!
How about a Statistics and Research Methods quick course at the MTC! Image

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LookingHard
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Re: Missionary Rules

Post by LookingHard » 31 Mar 2017, 10:12

I really like to work on cars and do home repairs and improvements. That often requires (or is MUCH easier) with tools.

If Satan has the best Binford tool-time approved set of tools, I may just have to look at joining his team. :P

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DarkJedi
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Re: Missionary Rules

Post by DarkJedi » 31 Mar 2017, 19:40

I guess what bugs me most about a view of Satan that seems to be common in the church is that he is some supernatural very powerful being who can influence our very thoughts without us knowing it. I know we attribute these same qualities to God/The Holy Ghost but there's a difference because we are supposed to be able to tell when we are being influenced by the Holy Ghost. Satan is more tricky, we somehow don't know when he is (possibly) influencing us? I really have more trouble with the LDS concept of Satan than I do with the LDS concept of God or the Holy Ghost.

Sorry for the threadjack.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

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SilentDawning
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Re: Missionary Rules

Post by SilentDawning » 02 Apr 2017, 09:48

I see good reason for it. Men are vulnerable in today's society. It takes one false accusation to destroy confidence in the person's reputation, even if they are acquitted or the charges are unfounded.

I went to a movie with my 15 year old niece yesterday out of a kind of accident and damage control for an unexpected situation that happened.. I saw how incredibly strange it feels to be in that situation as I never, and I will say, never, let myself be alone with a female in a place that isn't public. We were trained at our university we'd lose any claim against us for any kind of inappropriate behavior with a female student, even if the claims were unfounded.

Also, older males are especially vulnerable as there is a big stigma against relationships between older men and young women. But I think the rule for missionaries is wise. As it is with the gun rules.

When you are part of a large organization, flush with cash, you have to be more careful as you become a lawsuit magnet. And men are far more vulnerable to these kinds of accusations than I think they are aware.

I am getting this from my walking partner of a while ago who is involved in political action for men's rights in shared parenting situations. I was amazed at the binds he and many of his fellow activists got themselves into due to indiscretions or even behavior where they raised their voice, and ended up with domestic abuse claims from others. He is so paranoid now, he has video cameras installed at the front of his house to capture whatever happens when the mother of his child does a hand-off.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

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SamBee
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Re: Missionary Rules

Post by SamBee » 02 Apr 2017, 13:30

I think it is also - like I say - to prevent them becoming free babysitters.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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dande48
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Re: Missionary Rules

Post by dande48 » 02 Apr 2017, 16:21

The lawsuits are a real danger. It's also become Church-wide policy (at least in the past five wards I've attended), that a male cannot teach a primary class alone. Females can. In these times, it's a pretty big sexist stigma that all males are perverts.

There was this one investigator we had on my mission. We had a pretty solid friendship. One time, we were over there for a lesson. His wife wasn't interested, and was feeling sick, so she was taking a nap in her bedroom. I had to use the bathroom before we began. I went in, and saw a door ajar at the back. I noticed it led to the bedroom, shut it and did my business.

The next time we went over, the man asked if he could speak to me alone. He was very adament, but my companion refused. He accused me of peeping in on his wife. I swear he was a moment away from beating me up. He said that on the slight chance he was wrong about the situation, he'd "let me go." But if he ever saw me again, there was going to be trouble.
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