Can I complain about another TSM story?

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mom3
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Re: Can I complain about another TSM story?

Post by mom3 » 27 Mar 2017, 12:26

Thomas Monson is the top leader now. It makes sense that his life would get more stories. I would caution against finding fault with stories about him. He didn't write the manual or magazine. The stories he likes to share about his life are when he was helping people, not the stories of how he became a GA or prophet. Those stories come from other places.

In a faith promoting world (not just the LDS world) we don't tell the stories of "he followed the Stake President's council and Brother Monson ended up impoverished living on welfare." The only time in the religious world where we tell stories of "failed" lives is when we want to point out a flaw. Lot's wife was weak and turned back. If she hadn't turned back, she probably wouldn't have even been mentioned in the story. Turning back at least got her name in the book.

Lastly, even people of no religion pull life connecting stories together to support their point of view. They do it in sports, in history, in politics, in parenting. A favorite child can do wrong (even if they have done a million things wrong). Likewise a less favored family member can never catch a break.

I like Thomas Monson. I dislike our aggrandizing or worship of leaders. I do think it creates a massive problem, but it's not Thomas Monson's fault or even the Primary's. We as human's do it in every facet of life.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

Joni
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Re: Can I complain about another TSM story?

Post by Joni » 27 Mar 2017, 13:00

mom3 wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 12:26
It makes sense that his life would get more stories. I would caution against finding fault with stories about him.
Usually, I dislike TSM stories because they don't seem to have a point.

This story? I am absolutely going to find fault with, because it's not just pointless, it's dangerous.

"Do whatever your church leaders ask, because it will turn out okay in the end?" Nope. That is how scrupulosity happens, and that is how disappointment happens. I am living proof of that. Just about everyone on StayLDS has a story about how doing exactly what we were told failed - sometimes with disastrous consequences.

"Children, you should do whatever your church leaders say, even if it doesn't feel right to you?" Nope. That is how abuse happens. And we aren't immune to it, it's not just a Catholic problem. This story was published in a magazine aimed at 3- to 12-year-olds. I honestly feel sick thinking about it.

ETA: I want to emphasize that I am not trying to bash TSM or speak evil of the Lord's anointed or anything like that. I feel like this is a mistake on the part of the Church magazines editorial board. I honestly doubt TSM is too aware of what is even being published in the Friend at this point, I don't hold him responsible.

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Can I complain about another TSM story?

Post by Curt Sunshine » 27 Mar 2017, 14:18

Fwiw, I love the stories Pres. Monsoon tells - because the point almost always is the same:
Love and serve each other.
I think he has been the most classically prophetic leader we have had in a long time: hyper-focused on one central issue he believes will "save/exalt" people. I love that his issue is love, and that he delivers it in a gentle, loving way.

Having said that, as I said, I also don't like the central message being applied to everyone.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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mom3
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Re: Can I complain about another TSM story?

Post by mom3 » 27 Mar 2017, 16:05

This story? I am absolutely going to find fault with, because it's not just pointless, it's dangerous.

"Do whatever your church leaders ask, because it will turn out okay in the end?" Nope. That is how scrupulosity happens, and that is how disappointment happens. I am living proof of that. Just about everyone on StayLDS has a story about how doing exactly what we were told failed - sometimes with disastrous consequences.

"Children, you should do whatever your church leaders say, even if it doesn't feel right to you?" Nope. That is how abuse happens. And we aren't immune to it, it's not just a Catholic problem. This story was published in a magazine aimed at 3- to 12-year-olds. I honestly feel sick thinking about it.
Good points Joni. I wasn't in Primary. I don't get the magazine any more. I appreciate your willingness to point out an important detail in our culture. We may never overcome it. But every awareness helps.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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nibbler
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Re: Can I complain about another TSM story?

Post by nibbler » 27 Mar 2017, 16:56

Ha. I commented on this story before when it appeared in the January 2015 Ensign. I got shouted down in a PH quorum meeting by two people at once for asking a question. I learned to not make comments that day. My take:
I was called to be a counselor in my ward bishopric. The bishop’s council meeting was on the same night as my navy drill meetings. I knew that I couldn’t do both. I prayed about it.
We know the rest of the story, he went to Harold B. Lee and Lee knew that god had greater things in store for TSM.

I can't remember specifics but to paraphrase I asked whether one possible solution would be for Monson to ask his bishop whether they could move the council meetings to a different night. I got shouted down before I could get it all out. You would have thought that I asked permission to walk 2,000 and one cubits outside of city limits on the Sabbath. :oops:

Obviously we don't have the whole story but I think it's reasonable to seed people's minds with a few pragmatic approaches to non life threatening problems. Meeting conflict? Can we move the meeting or should I immediately differ to whatever the prophet says?
He who sits alone, sleeps alone, and walks alone, who is strenuous and subdues himself alone, will find delight in the solitude of the forest.
— Buddha

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nibbler
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Re: Can I complain about another TSM story?

Post by nibbler » 27 Mar 2017, 17:06

Also,
Joni wrote:
26 Mar 2017, 19:12
...not drinking caffeinated soda...
How is this still a thing?
He who sits alone, sleeps alone, and walks alone, who is strenuous and subdues himself alone, will find delight in the solitude of the forest.
— Buddha

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DarkJedi
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Re: Can I complain about another TSM story?

Post by DarkJedi » 28 Mar 2017, 06:59

nibbler wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 17:06
Also,
Joni wrote:
26 Mar 2017, 19:12
...not drinking caffeinated soda...
How is this still a thing?
There's sort of an interesting article in the Tribune about that today (or at least how it became a thing): http://local.sltrib.com/online/WoW/

As another example, Sunday in priesthood the lesson was an HBE talk. As the lesson was being announced and the half of us who use technology were looking it up and there was some idle chitchat going on I said I liked Pres. Eyring and that he gave a great talk on peace in the first session of general conference last night. A guy sitting next to me said "Last night? I thought General Conference was next week?!" I replied the rest of it is, but the first session was last night and just left it at that and left him in his confusion to figure it out. (I'm not sure if he thought I was nuts or he was, but likely the former. :shock: ) The guy was clearly ignorant that the women's session is now referred to as the first session, and I will say that in general my ward is pretty good at recognizing the change.

Maybe we need a TSM story about how he drank Coke in a country where the water isn't safe and he still became prophet. My hero Pres. Uchtdorf admitted it after all, and he's still a boss.

Side note: In my son's South American mission - where the water is not always (or even generally) safe - they are not permitted to drink Coke. Some do because they it's difficult to enforce unless they have a comp who enforces it, as is the case currently with my son. Guarana soda is OK though.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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mom3
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Re: Can I complain about another TSM story?

Post by mom3 » 28 Mar 2017, 10:26

On the coke end - we had just the opposite. A couple of years ago Elder Christofferson or Marlin Jensen (somebody big like that) was here for regional conference he explicitly said caffeine wasn't in the word of wisdom. Oh my word, the next F&T meeting in my ward was full of people expressing gratitude, including the Bishop's wife, for this clarity and revelation.

So over here in the Kingdom we are coke drinkers. That should screw everyone up.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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hawkgrrrl
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Re: Can I complain about another TSM story?

Post by hawkgrrrl » 28 Mar 2017, 15:58

squarepeg wrote:
26 Mar 2017, 19:48
It would be nice if there were stories once in a while about times when a person prayed about whether to do the church thing or the career thing and followed a prompting to do the career thing, and how it brought them blessings. I can't think of any stories like that, even though I'm sure it happens often.
This happened in RS in my Singapore ward one day. Three of us said exactly this same thing, that we had prayed and knew that we needed to pursue a career. Two of us were successful business women and one was a lawyer. All 3 high earners. Our bishop's wife sounded incredibly depressed and said she didn't know we were allowed to pray for things like that. I just thought, "Oh, honey."

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Re: Can I complain about another TSM story?

Post by squarepeg » 28 Mar 2017, 19:13

hawkgrrrl wrote:
28 Mar 2017, 15:58
squarepeg wrote:
26 Mar 2017, 19:48
It would be nice if there were stories once in a while about times when a person prayed about whether to do the church thing or the career thing and followed a prompting to do the career thing, and how it brought them blessings. I can't think of any stories like that, even though I'm sure it happens often.
This happened in RS in my Singapore ward one day. Three of us said exactly this same thing, that we had prayed and knew that we needed to pursue a career. Two of us were successful business women and one was a lawyer. All 3 high earners. Our bishop's wife sounded incredibly depressed and said she didn't know we were allowed to pray for things like that. I just thought, "Oh, honey."
Awesome!! But so sad that the RS Pres didn't know she could pray about career options. I didn't know anything was out of bounds for prayer content! :cry:

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