What would you do if asked to stop?

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DarkJedi
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Re: What would you do if asked to stop?

Post by DarkJedi » 13 Feb 2016, 04:47

Minyan Man wrote:The fact for me is: we don't what we're going to do until it happens.
Anytime I choose to speak my mind, in church or outside, I try to ask the question, will my remarks hurt anyone?
Especially, my family members or new church members or investigators.

I never hesitate to speak my mind when the situation is one on one & I know my audience.
Even in that situation, I choose my words very carefully.
Exactly my thoughts. I heavily self moderate as it is with my main goal being "do no harm."
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Ann
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Re: What would you do if asked to stop?

Post by Ann » 13 Feb 2016, 08:50

I'm assuming in this hypothetical that changing names, etc., doesn't "work," that the idea is they know what you're doing and will call you on it.

What comes to my mind is how I'd feel if my spouse told me he was going to monitor me. I'd know that whether I stay married or not, the marriage bond - the love and respect - is essentially dissolved.

In real life I would weigh a lot of factors, but it does help to not be afraid of church discipline, only concerned about my family.
"Preachers err by trying to talk people into belief; better they reveal the radiance of their own discovery." - Joseph Campbell

"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." - Marcel Proust

"Therefore they said unto him, How were thine eyes opened? He answered and said unto them, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes...." - John 9:10-11

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DevilsAdvocate
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Re: What would you do if asked to stop?

Post by DevilsAdvocate » 13 Feb 2016, 10:20

Heber13 wrote:If you think of the biggest issue you disagree with the church leadership on (you can share it here or not for this discussion, either way), and you bishop and SP both talked to you and told you that you are allowed to have your beliefs, but they asked you to please not share in church class or over the pulpit, or not publish anything including on Internet boards on the subject if it disagrees with the church's published policy/position. They would be monitoring you on that...Would you feel a need to speak your mind and not be told to stifle it?...How far would you go to support the church leaders, and how far would you go to support your own conscience?
That's why I like being anonymous because I can say what I want to without worrying about what my bishop, stake president, neighbors, family, etc. would think if they see what I am saying about the Church and its leaders, porn, drinking, etc. If I had to pick one issue where I am never going to agree with the Church's official teachings I guess it is simply that I don't believe that the Q15 are prophets, seers, and revelators; as far as I'm concerned they are just ordinary men and therefore there is no compelling reason why I should feel obligated to believe and do what they say.

And it sounds like this general question came up in some recent Church discipline "courts" at least whether people accept Thomas S. Monson as "the Prophet" as if simply not believing this claim is apostasy. If I was threatened with excommunication over this I would probably resign. However, I certainly don't need to go around telling TBMs that I don't believe in the Church and why or even disparaging the Church on Facebook and I already don't do that anyway mostly because I think they don't want to hear it and won't really understand but will instead probably judge me unfairly. I do think it is lame that I should have to live in fear this way almost as if I am in North Korea simply because of the church, family, and state I was born into but I guess all I can do is try to get by the best I can under the circumstances.
"Truth is what works." - William James

Curt Sunshine
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Re: What would you do if asked to stop?

Post by Curt Sunshine » 13 Feb 2016, 18:34

It would depend on the purpose of the request.

No, I wouldn't stop doing and saying what I openly am doing and saying - again, unless they gave me a compelling reason (like a calling that would require anonymity). Lacking that, I would leave it in their hands to do whatever they chose to do. I am not an apostate, and I am comfortable with who I am.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

Roy
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Re: What would you do if asked to stop?

Post by Roy » 15 Feb 2016, 11:15

I would probably stop posting and retreat to being a lurker.

I might go quietly inactive at some point but having discipline hanging over my head would force my hand in ways that I am not comfortable with.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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SilentDawning
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Re: What would you do if asked to stop?

Post by SilentDawning » 15 Feb 2016, 12:37

That's a hard one. It would depend on what was threatened. If they were threatening my church membership, or some form of disciplinary council then I would probably stop doing it. If they were telling me I would not qualify for a temple recommend, then I would probably keep posting, provided I didn't think I wanted/needed one in the near future.

So, when it comes to this issue, it's the law of Moses. What are the consequences? Can I live with them if I keep posting? The answers to those questions would guide me.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

Joni
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Re: What would you do if asked to stop?

Post by Joni » 16 Feb 2016, 06:56

As I've mentioned elsewhere, my husband characterizes StayLDS as an anti-Mormon website that encourages people to leave the church. I still visit this site, I still post, but I'm using incognito browser windows for the time being.

Of course, it would be a little different if it's my bishop making these accusations rather than my husband. The bishop can take away my TR; my husband cannot. Then again, my bishop will only be my bishop for a few years; my husband will (theoretically) be my husband forever.

So I guess the first thing I would say is, "Why, Bishop! What on earth are you doing on those anti-Mormon websites that encourage people to leave the church?" :angel: After all, lurking on StayLDS or FMH isn't exactly avoiding the appearance of evil. Beyond that, I guess I would take the chance that between a full time job, full time calling, and family, the bishop doesn't have time to monitor my online activities.

The other thing is that I would need to make sure that these conversations take place in front of my husband - otherwise he would think I am exaggerating or making it up.

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Orson
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Re: What would you do if asked to stop?

Post by Orson » 16 Feb 2016, 08:35

Heber13 wrote:ITheir concern is that they know it has affected the testimonies of some people in their congregations who have come to them to talk about it because of your posts, and the things you may say in class.
I see this comment as the one that requires the time and effort.
Why can my words affect the testimonies of others?
Are testimonies some flimsy thing that is easily blown about on any wind? If a testimony is something that is truly experienced and personally known, or is it a house of cards? I know some of the comments we hear do make it seem weak: "If it's not constantly growing stronger it's getting weaker." This idea doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If I am a witness in court is my testimony going to change based on what other people say?

On one hand I could imagine a situation where a number of other witnesses all testify seeing something that is slightly different from what I saw, that may cause me to rethink what I saw. But for the most part I would be confident and unchanging in my witness once I sat down and decided on what I actually saw.

If I was in that situation of being told to stop I may be too tempted to draw a parallel of how the desire to snuff/silence other perspectives is like using band-aids on chicken pox, expecting the ointment and cover to slow the illness.
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I first found faith, and thought I had all truth. I then discovered doubt, and claimed a more accurate truth. Now I’ve greeted paradox and a deeper truth than I have ever known.

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Heber13
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Re: What would you do if asked to stop?

Post by Heber13 » 16 Feb 2016, 09:10

Orson...I agree...and would probably remind the bishop that he should shepherd others also, because those people will move on to the next issue, and the next, and possibly be missing the point of inward conversion and the strength from that.

Squeeky wheels sometimes need to realize they can keep up on lubrication and avoid their own problems if they take care of themselves like the other wheels do.

Hence, religion. We all can work on something.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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Meh Mormon
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Re: What would you do if asked to stop?

Post by Meh Mormon » 16 Feb 2016, 10:22

Seeing as I hardly post anything anyway, I wouldn't consider it more than a weak scare tactic. I'm almost at the point of not caring about the discipline thing. My parents would be upset, my siblings (most of them) would be upset, but they wouldn't disown me or refuse to speak to me anymore (at least I hope so). Then I would also ask how they got my online info and discuss the legality of them spying on me.

Anyway, it's all hypothetical anyway as they have pretty much left me alone since I stopped going.

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