Who is Russel M. Nelson?

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Rob4Hope
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Re: Who is Russel M. Nelson?

Post by Rob4Hope » 08 Jul 2015, 05:43

Ray DeGraw wrote:Absolutely. It is quite easy, if you focus on the entire message in that talk and not limit the overall meaning by zeroing in on one phrase and making it the entire message.

As I said in the other thread where you posted about this talk, it is pretty obvious he meant that the blessings we receive are conditional - that God loves all unconditionally, but he can't bless all equally and unconditionally. I think he butchered that meaning, to a degree, for an audience that was diverse and was prone to hear his message in different ways, but the basic point that he was making really isn't that controversial.

To phrase it a little less harshly than I might in a private conversation, we all know that jerks get treated differently by just about everybody than nice people do. Framed differently, if I have an obnoxious, pain in the butt, confrontational, narrow-minded, judgmental sibling or parent or friend, I might love him or her every bit as much as my other, nicer siblings or parent or friends - but I'm not going to associate with them in the same way. My love might be unconditional, but my interaction will be conditional.

Again, I would phrase it differently than he did, but that talk has been used to beat him up unfairly, imo. It's also a great example of why we get many talks that sound more correlated and less edgy now than in the past, I think. When every word is dissected and then used as a bludgeon, often by ignoring the overall message, we shouldn't complain when we get more that are fairly generic.
Makes total sense.

Roy
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Re: Who is Russel M. Nelson?

Post by Roy » 08 Jul 2015, 09:20

Ray DeGraw wrote:As I said in the other thread where you posted about this talk, it is pretty obvious he meant that the blessings we receive are conditional - that God loves all unconditionally, but he can't bless all equally and unconditionally. I think he butchered that meaning, to a degree, for an audience that was diverse and was prone to hear his message in different ways, but the basic point that he was making really isn't that controversial.

To phrase it a little less harshly than I might in a private conversation, we all know that jerks get treated differently by just about everybody than nice people do. Framed differently, if I have an obnoxious, pain in the butt, confrontational, narrow-minded, judgmental sibling or parent or friend, I might love him or her every bit as much as my other, nicer siblings or parent or friends - but I'm not going to associate with them in the same way. My love might be unconditional, but my interaction will be conditional.
I agree and agree. The only caveat (and I posted this on the other thread) is that the amount of "blessings" received in this life does not appear to correlate to either God's love or personal merit. I assume that whatever we find in heaven it will be a vast improvement from what we have here.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

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"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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Cadence
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Re: Who is Russel M. Nelson?

Post by Cadence » 12 Jul 2015, 15:42

I grew up in the same stake as RMN. My parents knew him quite well. I remember those 8 daughters quite well, especially the one my age. As I recall they were the traditional Mormon family doing all the Mormon stuff. Nothing stands out as I recall.

I did run into him a couple of years ago at a wedding of a mutual friends daughter. He had know clue who I was which is not surprising at all. I told him who my parents were but he drew a blank. He seemed to be unable to focus on the conversation. He seemed like an old man who forgets things. Maybe he was just having a bad day.
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SamBee
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Re: Who is Russel M. Nelson?

Post by SamBee » 14 Jul 2015, 08:00

Shawn wrote:I hope the "seniority" practice is abandoned and Dieter Uchtdorf becomes the next president.
The reason it's maintained is political, IMHO. It avoids factionalism, but I too wish it were abolished.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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On Own Now
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Re: Who is Russel M. Nelson?

Post by On Own Now » 04 Jan 2018, 13:22

Bumping this thread from 2015
"Let us therefore no longer pass judgment on one another, but resolve instead never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of another." --Romans 14:13

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dande48
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Re: Who is Russel M. Nelson?

Post by dande48 » 06 Jan 2018, 00:42

For the record, as a whole, I have really liked Russel M. Nelson.

But I had a thought; Why do we ordain the most senior apostle to be the prophet? It sounds like a VERY bad idea. When you think about it, the prophet (according to Church Doctrine), is the most important position in the entire world. You need someone in tip-top shape, who can hold up to a rigorous schedule, and has the mental clarity to recieve clear and direct communication from God.

If you had a company, and you needed to find a highly qualified CEO, would you pick a 93 year old man, with an undisclosed health history, who is probably on half a dozen medications? That would be a disaster. I say, let the man have a well deserved retirement.
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SamBee
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Re: Who is Russel M. Nelson?

Post by SamBee » 06 Jan 2018, 03:11

But I had a thought; Why do we ordain the most senior apostle to be the prophet?
I cover that above. It's political.

The LDS has a bad memory of the succession crisis after JS' death. It changed to a system which minimizes conflict.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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dande48
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Re: Who is Russel M. Nelson?

Post by dande48 » 06 Jan 2018, 07:26

SamBee wrote:
06 Jan 2018, 03:11
I cover that above. It's political.

The LDS has a bad memory of the succession crisis after JS' death. It changed to a system which minimizes conflict.
It feels seems like they switched from a bad, uninspired system to a bad, uninspired system. If they're going to get in a conflict over who becomes the next God-chosen, inspired prophet, they don't seem worthy of leading the Church.
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

"Even though there are no ways of knowing for sure, there are ways of knowing for pretty sure."
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SamBee
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Re: Who is Russel M. Nelson?

Post by SamBee » 06 Jan 2018, 14:40

dande48 wrote:
06 Jan 2018, 07:26
SamBee wrote:
06 Jan 2018, 03:11
I cover that above. It's political.

The LDS has a bad memory of the succession crisis after JS' death. It changed to a system which minimizes conflict.
It feels seems like they switched from a bad, uninspired system to a bad, uninspired system. If they're going to get in a conflict over who becomes the next God-chosen, inspired prophet, they don't seem worthy of leading the Church.
I don't see a problem with them wishing to avoid conflict. The big problem is with their great age of course, although unfortunately one could argue "God gets the vote".

A lot of people of a certain mold were itching to see a Packer Presidency, but it didn't happen as he was "called back to Jesus" (and Heavenly Father). So in a sense, non-committee factors *do* decide who does and doesn't become the leader of the church out of the GAs.

I almost needn't point out that under this system, Joseph Smith would have never been the church president. Not only for his quirky, uncorrelated leadership, but the fact he died long before most people get called to be GAs, and he started in his teens.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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Re: Who is Russel M. Nelson?

Post by Curt Sunshine » 06 Jan 2018, 18:45

There also is historic danger in young leadership.

I am not defending the current age of leadership, but having young leaders wasn't a walk in the park on a beautiful, summer day, either. :P
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

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