Humbling moment

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Rob4Hope
Posts: 665
Joined: 06 Jan 2015, 07:28

Humbling moment

Post by Rob4Hope » 25 Jun 2015, 13:54

Just listened to the pod-cast Bill Reel gave with this Blake Ostler guy.

Blake is like someone who has a jet airplane firing between his ears--jet engine brilliant....and I am putting around on a skateboard.

Oh, how utterly ignorant I am with all of the things I assume I know so much about....

WOW!!!

startpoor
Posts: 193
Joined: 22 Nov 2013, 13:43

Re: Humbling moment

Post by startpoor » 25 Jun 2015, 16:51

I'll have to give it a listen. I have heard him on mormon stories before and thought he came off very unsympathetic and arrogant. I know he's a smart guy and written some theological books, but I would cringe every time he spoke.


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Happiness (n.) The state of being in compliance with Mormon norms, regardless of one’s actual resulting emotional state

George, Sr.: Faith is a fact. No, faith is a facet. I almost said faith is a fact.

Rob4Hope
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Joined: 06 Jan 2015, 07:28

Re: Humbling moment

Post by Rob4Hope » 25 Jun 2015, 19:02

startpoor wrote:I'll have to give it a listen. I have heard him on mormon stories before and thought he came off very unsympathetic and arrogant. I know he's a smart guy and written some theological books, but I would cringe every time he spoke.


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Be warned,...he came down HARD on the LGBT deal. Bill asked him, and he hit it hard. He also came down pretty hard on the FC concern Bill brought up.

But, was a good listen.

startpoor
Posts: 193
Joined: 22 Nov 2013, 13:43

Re: Humbling moment

Post by startpoor » 26 Jun 2015, 10:30

Yeah, he doesn't seem to buy the fact that the church taught anything but the truth, and anyone who learned otherwise is an idiot, and that FCs are brought about by personal ignorance. I guess he's too dense to realize that not everyone grew up in Utah with access to archival documents and any inkling that spending time sorting through them would be interesting.


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Happiness (n.) The state of being in compliance with Mormon norms, regardless of one’s actual resulting emotional state

George, Sr.: Faith is a fact. No, faith is a facet. I almost said faith is a fact.

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LookingHard
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Joined: 20 Oct 2014, 12:11

Re: Humbling moment

Post by LookingHard » 27 Jun 2015, 10:48

Just finished listening to this a few moments ago.

He doesn't have the most liberal view on LGBT issues, but I would love if the church could at least move more towards his view. That would be a better position (for now?). I have always looked at it a bit in that we as a church don't believe in drinking alcohol, but we don't preach at every general conference that we need to fight in every way to bring back prohibition. So lets do the same on gay marriage. Let civil laws allow civil marriages. I do agree that part of what is going on is the religious "marriage" vs. civil "unions" becoming intertwined. If a hundred years ago the government would have defined marriages as something churches do and civil unions as something that the government does (and by default marriages had the same civil rights as civil unions) I think we would have allowed gay civil unions before now and with less of a fight.

But back to the Osler interview. What I do find bothersome is a bit of Blake's statements that seems to be saying that individual just don't have the information to make educated decisions dealing with church issues. It sounded like, "you have to be like me -someone that reads not the scriptures for 2 hours a day, but all this ancient historical stuff and get multiple degrees to really understand it - then it isn't that big of a deal to keep the faith." That does not make sense that God would create such a system.

I also find it bothersome as to why some like Blake have "lots of spiritual experiences" and I have only 1 back 30+ years ago. Looking back, I have not had any great sins, always active, and for several stretches I was reading the scripture daily. If it is spiritual experiences that keep people believing even when there are disturbing things going on or finding disturbing history, why don't I have any? Why have I never felt like God spoke to me when reading the BOM? I do feel warm inside when reading the new testament, but try as I might (even on my mission) it has never come.

Rob4Hope
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Joined: 06 Jan 2015, 07:28

Re: Humbling moment

Post by Rob4Hope » 30 Jun 2015, 07:15

LookingHard wrote:But back to the Osler interview. What I do find bothersome is a bit of Blake's statements that seems to be saying that individual just don't have the information to make educated decisions dealing with church issues. It sounded like, "you have to be like me -someone that reads not the scriptures for 2 hours a day, but all this ancient historical stuff and get multiple degrees to really understand it - then it isn't that big of a deal to keep the faith." That does not make sense that God would create such a system.
You know, this came across pretty strongly to me as well. He said in multiple places in so many words: "These people don't know what they are talking about."

My faith crisis came about because of a contemporary issue, and then spilled over into other areas. I think I have another post I want to put up about something.....a new thread....

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