Can I complain about garments?

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SilentDawning
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Re: Can I complain about garments?

Post by SilentDawning » 11 May 2015, 05:58

What can women do? Can they change into more suitable, endearing undergarments when there are opportunities for intimacy? There is room for judgment on when to wear them (sports activities, for example).
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Can I complain about garments?

Post by Curt Sunshine » 11 May 2015, 06:28

The handbook actually says it is up to the individual member to make the decision about when to wear the garment.

If you want sex and physical intimacy on a regular basis, consider extending the time you consider to be foreplay - to as long as you want to designate - and don't wear the garment during that time. Maybe that means you won't wear the garment except for a few minutes here and there to constitute "throughout your life" (which is the actual temple covenant). :D ;) :thumbup:
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

GBSmith
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Re: Can I complain about garments?

Post by GBSmith » 11 May 2015, 06:36

Ray DeGraw wrote:The handbook actually says it is up to the individual member to make the decision about when to wear the garment.

If you want sex and physical intimacy on a regular basis, consider extending the time you consider to be foreplay - to as long as you want to designate - and don't wear the garment during that time. Maybe that means you won't wear the garment except for a few minutes here and there to constitute "throughout your life" (which is the actual temple covenant). :D ;) :thumbup:
A small point but it's only an instruction during washing and anointing, not a covenant.

NightSG
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Re: Can I complain about garments?

Post by NightSG » 11 May 2015, 07:08

TataniaAvalon wrote:Seriously there's no way to keep them white. I had an odd conversation with a TBM at my work who's married and she said she didn't see the point of lingerie because she would have to wear them over her G's.
Funny; I never saw the point of lingerie for the same reason I don't have people re-wrap my presents after I've opened them once already.

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SilentDawning
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Re: Can I complain about garments?

Post by SilentDawning » 11 May 2015, 07:18

Ray DeGraw wrote:If you want sex and physical intimacy on a regular basis, consider extending the time you consider to be foreplay - to as long as you want to designate - and don't wear the garment during that time. :D ;) :thumbup:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Don't take my laughter as belittling the idea, but like many good ideas, this one literally made me laugh out loud.

Logic -- if keeping romance alive is important in marriage then every day could be considered foreplay...you might argue that it helps someone be kinder and loving and passionate the sexier they feel, so one should wear more endearing undergarments several days before and after encounters ... ;)
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Can I complain about garments?

Post by Curt Sunshine » 11 May 2015, 07:57

You are right, GB.

In the temple it is instruction, albeit with a promise. It is not an explicit covenant.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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Heber13
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Re: Can I complain about garments?

Post by Heber13 » 11 May 2015, 09:15

I just wanted to reference the discussion we had on the garments before, and quote wayferer's response which I think is good food for thought:
wayfarer wrote:The instructions in the temple are simply to wear the garment throughout your life. Specific logistical details as to how often or when it is to be worn are not provided in the temple. While "throughout your life" is interpreted (note passive voice) as being day and night, such instructions are not explicitly given in the words of the temple ceremonies. The 'covenant' of the garment, the two-way promise is that if you wear it throughout your life, and do not defile it, it will be a shield and protection to you.

'do not defile it' is often thought of as treating the garment like a flag: never let it touch the floor, etc., etc. I think whoever put these words out had something else in mind.

''shield and protection' -- the folklore is around 'magic underwear' -- lots of faith-promoting stories around miraculous saving from bullets, etc. This isn't a real benefit -- but be that as it may.

The garment, to me, is a inward symbol of the temple covenants. Such symbols are common in other religions: sikhs and jews wear sacred underwear of some sort. It's a symbol of commitment. How and when I wear that symbol is entirely up to me, imo.
Review the entire thread here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3395

I think if the garments are causing stress or unrest in a person's life, it should be evaluated privately by asking one self in prayer:
1) What is the cause of stress or unrest? Why do I feel that way and how can I adjust it so it feels right to me? What can I learn from that about my spirituality?
2) What can I let go of in terms of pressures I thought I needed to do with garments that may actually be tradition or folklore but not directly what I consider as part of my temple covenants as I understand it?
3) Am I more concerned with what others think I should do with garments than what me and my God think I should do and the true purpose of them.

I think we can make more adjustments to make them meaningful in our lives than sometimes we give ourselves permission to do. Personally, I err on the side of comfort and peace in my life. Not in a shallow way, but just practically speaking.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

GBSmith
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Re: Can I complain about garments?

Post by GBSmith » 11 May 2015, 09:16

I came across this a few years back and adds support to Ray's and other's comments. I'd been reading Devery Anderson's The Development of LDS Temple Worship 1846-200, and came across this quote by President McKay on page 320.
One letter I dictated was to a woman in answer to her question about the wearing of garments while sunbathing. I said to her: "The wearing of the garment is a personal responsibility, and conditions that justify temporary removal should be determined by each person." - David O. McKay diary, Feb 1, 1960.

Ann
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Re: Can I complain about garments?

Post by Ann » 11 May 2015, 10:51

It seems that garment discussions often veer off pretty quickly into sex and intimacy within marriage territory. The focus is on how women can feel "sexy" wearing something so very sexless, when and how to justify not wearing it, etc. But how I feel about garments really has nothing to do with my husband and our sex life. Women should be able to feel feminine single or married, at 21, 91, and every age between.
"Preachers err by trying to talk people into belief; better they reveal the radiance of their own discovery." - Joseph Campbell

"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." - Marcel Proust

"Therefore they said unto him, How were thine eyes opened? He answered and said unto them, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes...." - John 9:10-11

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Can I complain about garments?

Post by Curt Sunshine » 11 May 2015, 14:54

Amen, Ann.

A-freaking-men!
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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