Giving a talk on Scout Sunday - help?

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LookingHard
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Re: Giving a talk on Scout Sunday - help?

Post by LookingHard » 03 Feb 2015, 20:32

nibbler wrote:
LDS_Scoutmaster wrote:And why don't we have Girl Scouts in the church?
It could be about influence. How much influence does the church wield with the BSA? The church might want to wield similar influence at the top of Girl Scouts, at which point the lack of involvement between the two groups may be desired by both parties.
I do know that the US BSA allows the sponsoring organization to really be in charge of who the leaders are in a troop (barring issues with background checks). I have heard that in countries where the BSA is more in charge that the church does not participate. I am not familiar with GSA, so maybe they also "pick" the leaders.

But the Girls that are a bit older could form an explorer post with women leaders as the post gets to decide if they are all male, all female, or mixed. After all the entire "venturing" class of scouts was made just for the LDS "Teachers quorum".

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Re: Giving a talk on Scout Sunday - help?

Post by Curt Sunshine » 04 Feb 2015, 06:41

Some important issues aside, the Young Women program is quite good; generally speaking, the Young Men program, in most places, isn't nearly up to that level. Maybe the church leaders are concerned that the YM program will be a complete disaster without Scouting - although I hear most programs are fine in areas where the Church isn't involved in Scouting.

Personally, I think the connection is to an earlier time when the current older leaders had wonderful experiences in Scouting, often in more rural areas where it tends to work better.
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LookingHard
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Re: Giving a talk on Scout Sunday - help?

Post by LookingHard » 04 Feb 2015, 07:30

I firmly believe that scouting is a positive for the vast majority of YM. If the program is done right, the boys learn how to lead. That is actually what the BSA wants to happen.

Scouting does not do much for those that don't like fire, knives, camping, sports. Somewhat a mirror of the church that the majority really like the way it is, but there are some groups that I does not resonate quite as well as others.

Even though I have been (was) in scouting for more than a decade, I do see some parents that equate scout rank advancement to be THE indicator if they are doing their job as a parent. And sometimes the boy is advancing for no other reason than their parents are forcing them. There have been Eagle scouts in my troop that I feel were really not ready for the real world after they graduated.

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Re: Giving a talk on Scout Sunday - help?

Post by LDS_Scoutmaster » 04 Feb 2015, 17:11

LookingHard wrote:
LDS_Scoutmaster wrote:And why don't we have Girl Scouts in the church?
Do you want the Sunday School answer, or my blunt 1 word answer: "sexism"
Lol at first, then yeah, I've thought that myself.
hawkgrrrl wrote: Because BSA creates self sufficient men who are conformists. GSA creates lesbians who self-perform abortions. This is nearly the exact answer I got when I asked this question. All my friends were girl scouts.
I hope you didn't hear that from a scoutmaster.

nibbler wrote: It could be about influence. How much influence does the church wield with the BSA? The church might want to wield similar influence at the top of Girl Scouts, at which point the lack of involvement between the two groups may be desired by both parties.
I remember during the 70s the heyday of GS, there was a lot of backlash from the supposed ties and influence of the women's lib movement. Maybe you're right about that.
LookingHard wrote: After all the entire "venturing" class of scouts was made just for the LDS "Teachers quorum".
IMO that has been detrimental to lds scouting. It makes perfect sense to have scouting divided into quorums which coincide with each other, but it doesn't make for a cohesive group of older boys for the younger boys to look up to. And conversely younger boys for the older to mentor. Objectively there is still interaction between the groups, but it lends to a mentality of scouts as "kids stuff" when you turn 14.
Ray DeGraw wrote: Some important issues aside, the Young Women program is quite good; generally speaking, the Young Men program, in most places, isn't nearly up to that level.
I agree. my girls earned their awards which was akin to Eagle scout workload.
LookingHard wrote: I firmly believe that scouting is a positive for the vast majority of YM. If the program is done right, the boys learn how to lead. That is actually what the BSA wants to happen.

Scouting does not do much for those that don't like fire, knives, camping, sports. Somewhat a mirror of the church that the majority really like the way it is, but there are some groups that I does not resonate quite as well as others.

Even though I have been (was) in scouting for more than a decade, I do see some parents that equate scout rank advancement to be THE indicator if they are doing their job as a parent. And sometimes the boy is advancing for no other reason than their parents are forcing them. There have been Eagle scouts in my troop that I feel were really not ready for the real world after they graduated.
It took me a long time to realize to tailor scouting to the individual boys. I was so gung ho in the beginning that if they weren't interested in scouts, well that's what we were doing.
I think in general and i hate to generalize, but i would guess that eagle scouts from non lds troops compared to lds troops are more "scouty" and self prepared.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6311&start=70#p121051 My last talk

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Re: Giving a talk on Scout Sunday - help?

Post by LookingHard » 04 Feb 2015, 19:58

LDS_Scoutmaster wrote:
LookingHard wrote: After all the entire "venturing" class of scouts was made just for the LDS "Teachers quorum".
IMO that has been detrimental to lds scouting. It makes perfect sense to have scouting divided into quorums which coincide with each other, but it doesn't make for a cohesive group of older boys for the younger boys to look up to. And conversely younger boys for the older to mentor. Objectively there is still interaction between the groups, but it lends to a mentality of scouts as "kids stuff" when you turn 14.
Amen my brother (in scouting). I was part of a non-LDS troop with my son for about 4 months and it was SSOOOOO good to see 10-17 year olds together. The adults occasionally had to wisper in the 16 and 17 year old "leaders" what to do and it was done - and the younger boys worshiped (most) of the older ones much more than they did most of the adults. The older boys wanted to show the adults they were good leaders. It really worked well. It is so different in a church troop.

Instead we have "quorum" focused that spreads the boys from 11 in 1 class (and never interact with any older scouts), 12/13, 14/15, 16/17. And your "quorum" changes about every other month with younger ones advancing in and older ones advancing out. The best way to build unity is to change the membership every other month?

I will stop venting (and taking this thread on a tangent). I don't know if we need a "scouting" topic on this forum, but if there was, you have not seen my rant about LDS troop finances and fundraising.

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LookingHard
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Re: Giving a talk on Scout Sunday - help?

Post by LookingHard » 06 Feb 2015, 07:01

And to continue the tangent just a bit longer with some satire

http://www.thebunyion.com/2013/08/02/girlscouts/

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Re: Giving a talk on Scout Sunday - help?

Post by LDS_Scoutmaster » 06 Feb 2015, 07:40

Lookinhghard wrote:The adults occasionally had to wisper in the 16 and 17 year old "leaders" what to do and it was done - and the younger boys worshiped (most) of the older ones much more than they did most of the adults.
You hit the nail on the head there.

I agree sorry to the OP for stealing the thread. Maybe we should start one cause I've got some rants about finances and fundraising too.

BTW i lol'd about the YW medallion cookie. I want some shortbread now.
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Re: Giving a talk on Scout Sunday - help?

Post by QuestionAbound » 20 Feb 2015, 08:27

1 - I have enjoyed the scouting program for my boys not because they are taught to lead, but because they are exposed to new ideas all the time. We attend merit badge clinics as often as we can - especially when they are held at universities in our area. My boys have tried their hand at...milking a cow, metal working in a college art room, orienteering with the ROTC, small boat sailing, rappelling, archery, law, engineering, music, aviation, etc. For me, it's all about exposure. :)

2 - my talk went well. I struggled to write it and stay on the assigned topic...so I ditched all of those efforts late Saturday night and changed it to How the scouting program can help us become more like the Savior...because, after all, wouldn't we welcome a program that offers to do that? :) Once I changed direction for my talk, the process of writing it flowed smoothly. Imagine that. ;)
The scout law lists character traits that are all in line with what the Savior is like. I went over each trait.

Thanks for the input, everyone.
I think we should have a discussion thread where we all post SM talks we've given. :)

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