Why is the church so bad?

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startpoor
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Why is the church so bad?

Post by startpoor » 08 Oct 2014, 18:55

In almost every conversation I've had with either family, friends or bishop, I'm asked in different ways: what's so bad about the church? You were raised up well and now you're abandoning everything? In most cases they understand that there are legitimate issues with church history or even that gays are treated unfairly. Commonly I'll hear "but that stuffs in the past" or "you're not gay, so why does it matter to you?" I was also recently chastised by my bishop for being too negative about sacrament talks (I don't actually say anything--I have been very good about keeping my mouth shut, but people who know me can see it in my face) to which I wonder "why does it bother me so much? They're not killing babies, they're TRYING to be good people and most of the time they are. So, I've been trying to assess my motives for being critical of the church. How would you all answer?


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Curt Sunshine
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Re: Why is the church so bad?

Post by Curt Sunshine » 08 Oct 2014, 19:12

Generally, it isn't bad; for a whole lot of people, it's extremely good.

It's not that it's good or bad for most people who are struggling in some way. For most people, it's not what they always assumed / believed it to be, and that can be shattering. It also can affect a paradigm shift in which, suddenly, the negative is highlighted while the positive is devalued.

It's understanding and working through that shift to a third, more balanced view that is the key - and that's not easy or quick for most people.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

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Cadence
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Re: Why is the church so bad?

Post by Cadence » 09 Oct 2014, 05:28

Yes members are trying to be good for the most part, but only by their definition of good. There are many things the church and members do because they have a preconceived notion it is good, when in reality it is not. To determine if something is good you should be willing to look at it from the perspective of others. Most members are unable to do that. So they perceive all is good when it is not.
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Curt Sunshine
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Re: Why is the church so bad?

Post by Curt Sunshine » 09 Oct 2014, 07:12

To determine if something is good you should be willing to look at it from the perspective of others.


Amen.

Also, just to be fair, the Church really can be bad for some people.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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DarkJedi
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Re: Why is the church so bad?

Post by DarkJedi » 09 Oct 2014, 07:45

I struggle when listening to talks, testimonies, and lessons sometimes. I am now wondering if it shows on my face. I'm hoping not, I generally try to distract myself during the ones I don't like and that often involves by phone.

I don't think church as a whole is bad, but some things are. I think that's also evidenced by the discussions about GC that we've had on this board - to TBMs there is no such thing as a bad GC talk. There were certainly some I would rather not have been subject to. I'm sorry I can't answer your question, and it's never been asked of me.
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Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Meh Mormon
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Re: Why is the church so bad?

Post by Meh Mormon » 09 Oct 2014, 10:57

startpoor wrote:I was also recently chastised by my bishop for being too negative about sacrament talks (I don't actually say anything--I have been very good about keeping my mouth shut, but people who know me can see it in my face)
This is a little concerning to me. The Bishop chastised you for not liking sacrament talks even though you didn't say enything? It was because of the look on your face?

If that was the case in our ward, I would be called in after every sacrament meeting, Sunday school (if I went), and HP Group.

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West
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Re: Why is the church so bad?

Post by West » 09 Oct 2014, 11:00

Ray DeGraw wrote:
To determine if something is good you should be willing to look at it from the perspective of others.


Amen.
Thirding (?) this point. I think the only reason why I've come to comfortable terms with my new beliefs so quickly after my FC is because for years prior I was training myself to look at things from various perspectives, which actually led to my FC in the first place.

I sometimes have a bad mood at church, evident solely by my whispered sarcasm to my more laid back friends at the back of meetings -- that was actually pre-FC, and I've gotten much, MUCH better about that post-FC, and I never had anyone say anything about it, because I luckily live in a good ward. Pretty much most of the time at church meetings, I distract myself with drawing or writing, so I look like I'm paying attention and interested when I'm only half there. If there's a talk that catches my attention, I pause and listen to it.

The church isn't all bad for everyone. For many, it's their one true religion and path, and that's fine. There are many paths you can take to get to a destination, and that doesn't make any one path more "right" than the others. I think it's not so much that the church is bad. It's just the right path for some and not for others. The logical God I believe in wouldn't make a world and universe so complex and varied only to expect us to follow a black and white line.
Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid. -Albert Einstein

And God said 'Love Your Enemy,' and I obeyed him and loved myself. -Kahlil Gibran

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richalger
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Re: Why is the church so bad?

Post by richalger » 09 Oct 2014, 11:18

Cadence wrote:To determine if something is good you should be willing to look at it from the perspective of others.
Another amen.

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hawkgrrrl
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Re: Why is the church so bad?

Post by hawkgrrrl » 09 Oct 2014, 16:33

Mormons, like many people, are often super uncomfortable with outside perspective. Nobody likes to be told their butt looks fat, and yet we can't really see it ourselves.

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cwald
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Re: Why is the church so bad?

Post by cwald » 09 Oct 2014, 16:45

If I was asked this question, I would simply reply because I see the church as Orwellian. Please go read 1984, or Animal Farm, and come back and then we'll talk.
  Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn't participate enthusiastically. - Robert Kirby

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