Supreme Court just rejected states' gay marriage challenges

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Curt Sunshine
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Supreme Court just rejected states' gay marriage challenges

Post by Curt Sunshine » 06 Oct 2014, 12:02

The US Supreme Court just rejected a challenge from five states (including Utah) to the overturning of their gay marriage prohibitions.

This makes it inevitable that gay marriage bans throughout the US will not be upheld in court and that gay marriage will be legal throughout the US.

This also explains Elder Oaks' reference in his talk to accepting the law of the land and being gracious to those who support laws the Church doesn't / didn't support. I'm sure the leadership knew about this ruling before it was announced - and I'm VERY glad Elder Oaks addressed it the way he did (proactively, before the ruling was made public).
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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West
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Re: Supreme Court just rejected states' gay marriage challen

Post by West » 06 Oct 2014, 13:37

I was wondering how soon this post would pop up. :)

I think the same about Elder Oaks' reference. As soon as the news popped up on my feed today, I thought immediately of his talk and how timely it was -- and how great that it came over the weekend right before the decision. The presidency definitely knew the ruling or something similar to it was coming, and I am so glad that it was one of the Twelve who said that over the GC pulpit. Unfortunately, I don't think it will change many members' attitudes or behaviors towards those who identify gay or are active allies, but at least now we've got a solid reference.
Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid. -Albert Einstein

And God said 'Love Your Enemy,' and I obeyed him and loved myself. -Kahlil Gibran

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bridget_night
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Re: Supreme Court just rejected states' gay marriage challen

Post by bridget_night » 06 Oct 2014, 14:49

I was thinking the same thing Ray. Sure Oaks knew before hand and since I heard he has a gay grandson, maybe minds will rethink. I just wonder if gay marriage is legal, if lds gay married couples who want to attend church will be given any callings? Or will they still be considered immoral?

TataniaAvalon
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Re: Supreme Court just rejected states' gay marriage challen

Post by TataniaAvalon » 06 Oct 2014, 15:21

Poor Utah they'll have to marry gay people again until they figure out a way to stop it. Hopefully the marriages that were performed before the shut down will be legal again. Also I hope they know it's a losing battle and will give up. Personally I agree with those of you that stated the church saw it coming and Elder Oaks gave the talk in response.

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Supreme Court just rejected states' gay marriage challen

Post by Curt Sunshine » 06 Oct 2014, 15:55

Let's be fair. This is NOT a Utah issue. It has been an issue in most states across the country.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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Sheldon
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Re: Supreme Court just rejected states' gay marriage challen

Post by Sheldon » 06 Oct 2014, 16:44

Ray DeGraw wrote:This also explains Elder Oaks' reference in his talk to accepting the law of the land and being gracious to those who support laws the Church doesn't / didn't support. I'm sure the leadership knew about this ruling before it was announced - and I'm VERY glad Elder Oaks addressed it the way he did (proactively, before the ruling was made public).
Ray, are you saying that SCOTUS, one of the most secretive bodies in the United States, has a leak, and gave out privileged information to Elder Oaks before it was announced to the public on Monday? I find that very hard to believe unless proof is available.

What I do believe is that Oaks, being a lawyer, and reading the herbal tea leaves, saw the writing on the wall, and made a very educated guess (that most other legal minds had also made) that gay marriage will be legal in the US in all 50 states within a matter of years.

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Supreme Court just rejected states' gay marriage challen

Post by Curt Sunshine » 06 Oct 2014, 16:54

No, I'm not saying there was a leak. I'm suggesting what you said - that the leadership knew this would happen and addressed it proactively. However they knew is immaterial - since it could have been nothing more than an understanding of the court or as much as someone who knows what's being discussed giving someone a heads-up. There is no way to know, but, again, I don't care. I simply think they saw the writing on the wall, especially given the way some of the appellate decisions were worded, so Elder Oaks, being the judge and lawyer, addressed it directly. I think he was preparing his talk before he could have gotten any definitive word from any judicial contacts, so I personally discount the leak possibility and go with a simple understanding of the legal weakness of the arguments and/or how the Supreme Court would view the challenge.

Sorry if the wording made it seem like I thought there was "a leak" at the court. I can see how it can be read easily that way.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

Kipper
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Re: Supreme Court just rejected states' gay marriage challen

Post by Kipper » 07 Oct 2014, 20:46

TataniaAvalon wrote:Poor Utah they'll have to marry gay people again until they figure out a way to stop it. Hopefully the marriages that were performed before the shut down will be legal again. Also I hope they know it's a losing battle and will give up. Personally I agree with those of you that stated the church saw it coming and Elder Oaks gave the talk in response.
Well TA and others with the Haha we win mind set, just know that during this next phase of growth the divide between members who have a hard time with gay marriage and those who wish it to be mainstream overnight, will be held open unless or until some humility sets in. Experience shows me this is not isolated.

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