Denver Snuffer Update

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eman
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Re: Denver Snuffer Update

Post by eman » 15 Sep 2014, 09:55

Tim resigned because he wanted to spare 15 men being away from their families to ex him which he considered the inevitable outcome of any church precedings.

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“I want the liberty of thinking and believing as I please. It feels so good not to be trammelled. It does not prove that a man is not a good man because he errs in doctrine.” (Joseph Smith, Discourse to Saints, April 1843; DHC 5:340)

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Reflexzero
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Re: Denver Snuffer Update

Post by Reflexzero » 15 Sep 2014, 10:56

Sometimes it is like religion is the antidote to the atonement. Through love, the intention of the atonement is to unite what was divided. Religions seem intent on dividing through certainty.

GBSmith
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Re: Denver Snuffer Update

Post by GBSmith » 15 Sep 2014, 11:10

cwald wrote:
Ray DeGraw wrote:I will miss Tim. I told him early on what the result would be for him if he continued to follow Denver Snuffer (and where Snuffer was headed and what he would do) - and Tim told me I was wrong on all accounts.

It doesn't help one bit to know I was right and Tim was wrong. Not. One. Bit. I'm just really sad for him and for what I know will happen in the end.
Ray, did you read Tim's blog post. ... linked by Sheldon? He states that he "never has been, nor will never be, a Snuffer follower."

I'm just curious about your latest post. Obviously you know the feller. Do you dismiss and simply not believe him when he says this about his reasons for leaving? Or do you believe he is be is being disingenuous?

What does it mean to be a "Denver follower?"
From Malone's 9/12/14 post "A Broken Heart and a Contrite Spirit"
A Message from a Prophet
I’ve previously declared Denver Snuffer to be a prophet. I know that’s a charged word in our church so it drew a lot of opposition. I stand by my proclamation, mainly because the Lord asked me to share it. Denver Snuffer delivered the message the Lord asked him to deliver. He acted as the Lord’s messenger and the Lord’s servant. I’ve heard the voice of the Lord declare it to me.
In spite of my proclamation, I don’t think Denver has ever stated he is a prophet. He has continually asked us to focus on Christ. While we may listen to prophets, we follow Christ. Something obviously changed Tuesday, because he said, the Lord told him, “I will bless them that bless thee, and curse them that curse thee.” He also mentioned another visit with Christ on May 1st, 2014.
While my wife was horrified at what she was hearing at Tuesday’s lecture, I was delighted. I have listened to the recording a couple of times now. Along with many of you, I am anxiously awaiting the release of the transcript. Even though I was baptized as a child, I have made up my mind I want to receive the ordinance of baptism as an adult. I just need someone to baptize me.
This is the first I've heard of him and after reading his last three posts, especially his notes on Snuffer's recent lecture, and he sure sounds like a follower to me. As a closet skeptic it's all hard for me to understand but I have to say that from the time I was little anyone that started a sentence with "the Lord told me..." was automatically suspect.

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mom3
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Re: Denver Snuffer Update

Post by mom3 » 15 Sep 2014, 12:05

cwald asked -
PS. I'm thinking about resigning. I'm looking for opinions of how mormon family members would interpret that action...why I would resign.
My guess is most Mormon family members would be heart broken. I don't know the man that this conversation is about (Tim) not Denver Snuffer, but I have been trying to put myself in his wife's shoes right now. He made a decision that was "best" for him - was that "best" best for her.

I look and listen to life right now and so much of it seems to be about getting what each of us wants, however we interpret that. At the rate all parties are going we are all going to want to be alone on our own island with our rules, opinions, and so on. There isn't enough land or space for that. Pretty soon we are all going to be stuck in misery.

You alone can answer why it is important to you to resign, maybe it is the only healthy solution, but none of us exist alone - we are tethered, whether we like or not, to others and our actions and choices will impact. They will impact us, they will impact people and things we know nothing of. They always do. Sometimes we don't have time to weigh a choice, but when we do, it doesn't hurt to take that time and clarify our personal expectations - because no choice - no matter how noble is not guaranteed to have the result we wish it would.

Good luck with your decision. Your life is fortunate with the wife and kids you have. I send wishes for hope for all of you.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

Steve-o
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Re: Denver Snuffer Update

Post by Steve-o » 15 Sep 2014, 13:30

PS. I'm thinking about resigning. I'm looking for opinions of how mormon family members would interpret that action...why I would resign.
CWald, I think they would view it as you turning your back on them. They would take it as an offense, as a rejection. It would make them more defensive IMO.

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cwald
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Re: Denver Snuffer Update

Post by cwald » 15 Sep 2014, 16:46

Yeah. I find it extremely difficult to understand how Tim can make the claim he is not a Snuffer follower. Confusing.
  Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn't participate enthusiastically. - Robert Kirby

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cwald
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Re: Denver Snuffer Update

Post by cwald » 15 Sep 2014, 16:48

I'm mostly interested the question of resigning... of perceived idea of joining an off shoot group of mormons.

Example. If I resigned, would family/friends say I was doing it because I was a Dehlin or OW follower?

Is that the perception we have of Tim? And if so, does it have merit?

PS. I still at this time have no desire to resign. I think that is giving the church the easy way out.
  Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn't participate enthusiastically. - Robert Kirby

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Denver Snuffer Update

Post by Curt Sunshine » 15 Sep 2014, 17:07

This thread was not meant to be about anyone but Denver Snuffer. It will focus on him and nobody else by name, or it will be closed. Generalities are fine; comments about individuals are not. Yes, I contributed when that door was opened; I'm closing it now.

That decision is personal, not objective. Please understand and respect it.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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cwald
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Re: Denver Snuffer Update

Post by cwald » 15 Sep 2014, 17:26

Ray DeGraw wrote:This thread was not meant to be about anyone but Denver Snuffer. It will focus on him and nobody else by name, or it will be closed. Generalities are fine; comments about individuals are not. Yes, I contributed when that door was opened; I'm closing it now.

That decision is personal, not objective. Please understand and respect it.
Yeah. You are the one who made this about the other individual...made it personal.

But I will agree to not discuss it further.
  Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn't participate enthusiastically. - Robert Kirby

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Denver Snuffer Update

Post by Curt Sunshine » 15 Sep 2014, 19:41

Yes, continuing the discussion when he was mentioned was a mistake. It's over now.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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