Is The Church The End, Or A Means To A End?

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SamBee
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Re: Is The Church The End, Or A Means To A End?

Post by SamBee » 19 Jul 2014, 14:44

A means to the end.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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Cadence
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Re: Is The Church The End, Or A Means To A End?

Post by Cadence » 20 Jul 2014, 07:53

More like a stumbling block. I think any "true" religion or faith would do everything possible to eliminate itself from interjecting itself between you and god. It would act more as a facilitator, than an authority figure. More a conduit than a toll gate.
Faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction--faith in fiction is a damnable false hope. Thomas A. Edison

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” Neil deGrasse Tyson

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SamBee
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Re: Is The Church The End, Or A Means To A End?

Post by SamBee » 20 Jul 2014, 08:19

The reason I say it is a means to an end is that sometimes, as Cadence points out, the stumbling blocks can prove a distraction.

That said, I love the social side of church.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Is The Church The End, Or A Means To A End?

Post by Curt Sunshine » 20 Jul 2014, 08:32

More like a stumbling block.


Knock it off. Seriously.
I think any "true" religion or faith would do everything possible to eliminate itself from interjecting itself between you and god.


No religion or even philosophy in the history of the world does that. It is a completely unrealistic and impossible standard, and there actually are quite a few denominations, religions and philosophies that interject themselves every bit as much as the LDS Church - and even more.

It is perfectly appropriate here to honestly discuss aspects of church culture, especially, that can be a stumbling block, and we do that all the time. To label the Church itself as a stumbling block, in all-inclusive terms, is in opposition to our mission here - and it absolutely is NOT a stumbling block for a whole lot of people.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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hawkgrrrl
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Re: Is The Church The End, Or A Means To A End?

Post by hawkgrrrl » 20 Jul 2014, 09:07

The church is a means to an end, but it sometimes forgets that and thinks it is the end unto itself. Rather, some individuals forget that and think that it is the end, not the means.

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