Looks like my name has come to the top of the list again

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QuestionAbound
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Re: Looks like my name has come to the top of the list again

Post by QuestionAbound » 15 Dec 2013, 20:19

SilentDawning wrote: It was deeply inspiring and activated me and my family -- and it lasted for a few years, even after we moved into a Ward that was exactly the opposite of this particular Ward.
Wow. What a ward. Sounds like it was amazing.
:)
Once you moved, what changed for your church attendance...or did it change?

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DarkJedi
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Re: Looks like my name has come to the top of the list again

Post by DarkJedi » 15 Dec 2013, 20:44

Thanks for the advice all. Indeed, I plan to be as vague as possible this time around, unlike my previous two visits. But now I have the whole week to fret about it. Fortunately it's the holiday season and I have a lot to do. Prayer seems to be a sticking point for me in these kinds of visits, not that other things aren't. Although thinking about it, the last visit there was no prayer - but I had stated my views on prayer pretty clearly. My basic thought is that I don't care if you (as the visiting leader) want to pray, but it's a waste of my time. So in the visit where there was one, I basically said that. In the rare home teaching visits I let my wife deal with it. Any tips on dealing with the question if it arises? (I can be diplomatic and say something along the lines of "go ahead" as long as I don't feel I'm being pressured to say it.)
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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SilentDawning
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Re: Looks like my name has come to the top of the list again

Post by SilentDawning » 16 Dec 2013, 04:12

DarkJedi wrote:Thanks for the advice all. Indeed, I plan to be as vague as possible this time around, unlike my previous two visits. But now I have the whole week to fret about it. Fortunately it's the holiday season and I have a lot to do. Prayer seems to be a sticking point for me in these kinds of visits, not that other things aren't. Although thinking about it, the last visit there was no prayer - but I had stated my views on prayer pretty clearly. My basic thought is that I don't care if you (as the visiting leader) want to pray, but it's a waste of my time. So in the visit where there was one, I basically said that. In the rare home teaching visits I let my wife deal with it. Any tips on dealing with the question if it arises? (I can be diplomatic and say something along the lines of "go ahead" as long as I don't feel I'm being pressured to say it.)
I would claim your right as "head of the household" (as much as some people don't like the patriarchal implications of that phrase). YOU decide who says the prayer. Pick your wife and ask her to keep it short and vague.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

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DarkJedi
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Re: Looks like my name has come to the top of the list again

Post by DarkJedi » 16 Dec 2013, 04:19

The prior visits have been one-on-one and I'm assuming this one will be, too. He did make the appointment with me, no mention of other family being there. In the past invoking the head of household idea meant no prayer.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

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SilentDawning
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Re: Looks like my name has come to the top of the list again

Post by SilentDawning » 16 Dec 2013, 04:33

QuestionAbound wrote:
SilentDawning wrote: It was deeply inspiring and activated me and my family -- and it lasted for a few years, even after we moved into a Ward that was exactly the opposite of this particular Ward.
Wow. What a ward. Sounds like it was amazing.
:)
Once you moved, what changed for your church attendance...or did it change?
I've had a tumultuous time in the church since I joined 30 years ago. Largely due to the behavior of leaders who convinced me they cared more about the church than about individual needs or our core principles (I have some startling stories). There have been several times when our core values have been juxtaposed with organizational interests, and the leaders chose the church interests every single time, leaving me out to dry.

In the new Ward, I saw similar behavior. I won't go into specifics, but there was a revolt by some Ward leaders against me as HPGL, distribution of a very mean-spirited email to the entire leadership that represented a personal attack on me personally. Our Bishopric did nothing.

I continued in the calling for two more years and had some good results, but eventually grew burned out and was diagnosed (for the first time in my life) with clinical depression. I had been workign part-time, full-time, going to school for 2 Master's degrees, and my son got diagnosed with Type 1 Diabetes at 6 years of age during this time. I could not bring myself to work anymore.... I asked to be released, without disclosing the reasons why as I felt it would limit the callings I would be extended in the future if I told them.

The Stake President took his time, gave me a handshake two months later, and then FINALLY released me officially two months after that. High Councilor could not care less when I called asking for an update.

That four month period was torment for me because I take my commitments seriously. I felt I could no longer function in the calling with the depression, but didn't want to have to disclose that depression....and people kept at me to do the calling, which I felt I couldn't do anymore. It was extremely frustrating for me.

This was the last straw for me, in retrospect. I felt like a used tool in the church again -- for the leaders to do whatever they wanted with me while I sat there with pressing needs, languishing.

Taken with a group of mean youth who repeatedly bullied my daughter (culminating with their ambushing her, putting duct tape over her mouth and then carrying her into a room to forcibly confine her and bind her hands and feet), I'd about had it.

My family left that Ward and attends another one now -- even though we don't live in it.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

Roy
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Re: Looks like my name has come to the top of the list again

Post by Roy » 16 Dec 2013, 09:47

SD, I know you are in a better place now but I just want to say that I am sorry that you had to go through these painful experiences. Sometimes people suck, both individually and in groups. :thumbdown:
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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Re: Looks like my name has come to the top of the list again

Post by Curt Sunshine » 16 Dec 2013, 09:57

Any tips on dealing with the question if it arises?
"Thank you. Will you offer it?"

or

"Thank you. I'd prefer to have you say it."

repeated, if necessary

Works for one or two prayers. If the other person doesn't get the message, there are some cognitive issues involved. :P If the other person doesn't accept it, there won't be a prayer before things get rolling. There might be extended silence, but that's the other person's issue. Keep smiling, and start small talk if it persists. Eventually, it will move on.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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SilentDawning
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Re: Looks like my name has come to the top of the list again

Post by SilentDawning » 16 Dec 2013, 11:09

Roy wrote:SD, I know you are in a better place now but I just want to say that I am sorry that you had to go through these painful experiences. Sometimes people suck, both individually and in groups. :thumbdown:
Thanks Roy. I credit StayLDS with helping me get so sick of my story I was able to condense it into a few paragraphs above. Now that's progress... I used to obsess about it.

But to help Dark Jedi -- I have found that if I assert myself in my own home, only the most socially inept force me to do something I don't want. If you're a thinker like I am, I usually do some informal scenario analysis where I envision the different paths the conversation might take before the visit (kind of like you are doing). I then prepare some short one-liners that assert myself without being offensive. Then, when the actual situation occurs, I find the preparation is often useful. Of course, when dealing with human-beings, you can never predict where the conversation will go, but that preparation gives me confidence. And usually, the conversation goes better than if I did no preparation at all.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

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DarkJedi
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Re: Looks like my name has come to the top of the list again

Post by DarkJedi » 16 Dec 2013, 20:39

Ray Degraw wrote:
Any tips on dealing with the question if it arises?
"Thank you. Will you offer it?"

or

"Thank you. I'd prefer to have you say it."

repeated, if necessary

Works for one or two prayers. If the other person doesn't get the message, there are some cognitive issues involved. :P If the other person doesn't accept it, there won't be a prayer before things get rolling. There might be extended silence, but that's the other person's issue. Keep smiling, and start small talk if it persists. Eventually, it will move on.
I suppose I could simultaneously bite my tongue and grit my teeth and attempt to say such a thing.... I wonder if I could smile while doing all of that?
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

Jazernorth
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Joined: 05 Sep 2013, 06:15

Re: Looks like my name has come to the top of the list again

Post by Jazernorth » 16 Dec 2013, 22:35

Ray Degraw wrote:
Any tips on dealing with the question if it arises?
"Thank you. Will you offer it?"

or

"Thank you. I'd prefer to have you say it."
I have only once had someone take over as "head of household", they were asked to never come back. {except my Dad or Father-In-Law, though they "didn't take over", out of respect, I turned the option over to them}

When these questions come up, I look right back at the guy and say, "You pray, but keep it short." I don't really want the long drawn prayer/lecture. Usually they never really ask again.

The best way, I think, is how my current Bishop did it. He said "Is there anything you would like me to do before I leave?". I said nope, we are good. He left, no prayer. I could have said, yes, let's pray. He left it wide open for me to make that decision. Wish everyone would do it that way.
Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness!
I will fight for all of them, will you join me?
http://www.jaynorth.net

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