Do you pay tithing?

Public forum for topics that don't fit into the other categories.
Curt Sunshine
Site Admin
Posts: 16804
Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 20:24

Re: Do you pay tithing?

Post by Curt Sunshine » 03 Dec 2013, 21:30

Yes, on net, but not for any particular blessings. I don't view it as fire insurance, and I don't view God as a vending machine. I want a temple recommend, but I don't pay tithing specifically to have one.

It has helped me emotionally to feel better about accepting fast offering assistance when I've been out of work more than once, but I do it solely to help the Church run without debt. I pay it like I would pay dues in another organization - nothing more, nothing less.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

startpoor
Posts: 193
Joined: 22 Nov 2013, 13:43

Re: Do you pay tithing?

Post by startpoor » 03 Dec 2013, 21:50

DarkJedi wrote:So that brings up the point alluded to here that some people do believe they have been blessed by paying tithing and that others can be, too. My question for those people, and I'll politely call you out Rich Dunn (but I don't want to argue with you), exactly what blessings have you received for paying tithing? Is there any way that it could be explained some other way? Are there people who don't pay tithing who have similar blessings?
Of course they could be explained in another way, can't all blessings? :smile:
The biggest blessing is simply that though my DW and I have had rocky times in our marriage, finances has never been a part of that. We are not rich, but have never had to worry about money, we just seem to make ends meet. At times we have been blessed with unexpected checks, and have just had a habit of attributing that to paying a full tithe. That's what the church taught and that's what we believed. Now, since my faith transition, I have had very strong feelings that the church finances are not used ethically. Historically that has certainly been the case. I have mixed feelings about paying a full tithe anymore, but like I said, I do it to keep my TR for now, and partly because a part of me still feels like the giving of that money is what keeps me materially detached from the world, and helps keep my finances balanced. I don't think it works that way for everyone. But it seems like there are some big expectations out there regarding full tithe paying. I never really had big expectations, maybe that is why I never felt let down. I never got the answer to Moroni 10, never had the gift of tongues on my mish, but I always had a testimony of tithing. That may not sound sensitive to others' experiences, which are totally valid, but this has been my experience and it has been strong enough for me to choose to believe it was a blessing.
Happiness (n.) The state of being in compliance with Mormon norms, regardless of one’s actual resulting emotional state

George, Sr.: Faith is a fact. No, faith is a facet. I almost said faith is a fact.

angel333
Posts: 17
Joined: 12 Nov 2013, 04:06

Re: Do you pay tithing?

Post by angel333 » 04 Dec 2013, 03:09

Talked to my husband about not paying.He said he is scared not to pay. He is afraid things will get worse than they already are for us. Does God really want us to pay out of fear? That just doesn't seem right to me.

User avatar
DarkJedi
Posts: 7109
Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: Do you pay tithing?

Post by DarkJedi » 04 Dec 2013, 04:19

richdunn wrote:
DarkJedi wrote:So that brings up the point alluded to here that some people do believe they have been blessed by paying tithing and that others can be, too. My question for those people, and I'll politely call you out Rich Dunn (but I don't want to argue with you), exactly what blessings have you received for paying tithing? Is there any way that it could be explained some other way? Are there people who don't pay tithing who have similar blessings?
Of course they could be explained in another way, can't all blessings? :smile:
Yes, and that's exactly my point. My family situation is very similar to yours, we are have what we need, no debt other than the mortgage, but our cars are both in the 120,000 - 130,000 range. The people across the street are also similar, non-member, non tithe paying. Are we blessed by paying tithing and they're not, although our situations are similar? I don't think anyone can make a case that we are more or less blessed than they are and relate that in an way to tithing, and I don't think even God could make a convincing argument either way.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

User avatar
DarkJedi
Posts: 7109
Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: Do you pay tithing?

Post by DarkJedi » 04 Dec 2013, 04:20

angel333 wrote:Talked to my husband about not paying.He said he is scared not to pay. He is afraid things will get worse than they already are for us. Does God really want us to pay out of fear? That just doesn't seem right to me.
No, I don't think God wants us to pay out of fear and I think any fear mongering associated with not paying tithing is manufactured by men in church leadership positions.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

startpoor
Posts: 193
Joined: 22 Nov 2013, 13:43

Re: Do you pay tithing?

Post by startpoor » 04 Dec 2013, 06:48

DarkJedi wrote: Yes, and that's exactly my point. My family situation is very similar to yours, we are have what we need, no debt other than the mortgage, but our cars are both in the 120,000 - 130,000 range. The people across the street are also similar, non-member, non tithe paying. Are we blessed by paying tithing and they're not, although our situations are similar? I don't think anyone can make a case that we are more or less blessed than they are and relate that in an way to tithing, and I don't think even God could make a convincing argument either way.
Just out of curiosity, 120,000-130,000 dollars or miles?
Happiness (n.) The state of being in compliance with Mormon norms, regardless of one’s actual resulting emotional state

George, Sr.: Faith is a fact. No, faith is a facet. I almost said faith is a fact.

User avatar
DarkJedi
Posts: 7109
Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: Do you pay tithing?

Post by DarkJedi » 04 Dec 2013, 07:58

richdunn wrote:
DarkJedi wrote: Yes, and that's exactly my point. My family situation is very similar to yours, we are have what we need, no debt other than the mortgage, but our cars are both in the 120,000 - 130,000 range. The people across the street are also similar, non-member, non tithe paying. Are we blessed by paying tithing and they're not, although our situations are similar? I don't think anyone can make a case that we are more or less blessed than they are and relate that in an way to tithing, and I don't think even God could make a convincing argument either way.
Just out of curiosity, 120,000-130,000 dollars or miles?
Sorry, I wasn't clear about that. Miles :oops:
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

Curt Sunshine
Site Admin
Posts: 16804
Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 20:24

Re: Do you pay tithing?

Post by Curt Sunshine » 04 Dec 2013, 12:16

I believe deeply in the principle and concept of tithing (generalized, and not specific to the LDS Church), just as I believe deeply in the principle and concept of fasting. I just don't tie any particular blessings to tithing to the extent that I expect blessings, while I do expect physical and spiritual blessings from fasting.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

Joni
Posts: 558
Joined: 22 Nov 2013, 08:36

Re: Do you pay tithing?

Post by Joni » 04 Dec 2013, 12:32

I really have a problem with the Church using my tithing money to subsidize BYU tuition. But I still pay it. I just don't have the expectation of any particular blessing, financial or otherwise, associated with my tithes.

I really think we need to get away from the "if you do X, you will be blessed with Y" mindset in this church. If I hear one more of those "We lost our job but because we paid our tithing we were offered a new job the next day that paid 50% more!" stories I swear I am going to hurl something. Or just hurl. The first time my husband was laid off, I was six months pregnant, he was out of work for four months (while we were making COBRA payments that exceeded our mortgage) and he eventually accepted a job paying 60% less than the old one. And then he was laid off three more times. And yep, we were paying our tithing the whole time.

I did recently mention to my husband something I learned from this forum - that it isn't Church doctrine that tithing is paid on your gross. He works in sales, so the majority of his income is paid in commission, which is taxed at a ridiculously high rate. And we are still paying tithing on the gross even though we only see about 60% of his commission check once Uncle Sam is done with it. :crazy: So the tithe we pay on that is closer to 20% than 10. It's hard to define your 'increase' - can you consider your increase to be money that goes directly from your employer to the feds without ever passing through your hands? However, I don't think he would ever agree to tithe on his net pay - or even, say, the gross of his salary and the net of his commission - because we are conditioned to think that the more tithing you pay, the more (nebulous) blessings you receive. So paying more tithing than you actually have to, I don't know, gets you to the Celestial Kingdom sooner or something.

At least he doesn't also insist that we pay tithing on our tax return. Although I'm sure we've all known people who would. :o
Last edited by Joni on 04 Dec 2013, 12:54, edited 1 time in total.

Roadrunner
Posts: 889
Joined: 25 Sep 2012, 15:17

Re: Do you pay tithing?

Post by Roadrunner » 04 Dec 2013, 12:50

To answer the question, I pay what I consider to be a full tithe.
Last edited by Roadrunner on 29 Apr 2014, 16:13, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply