Can you help me interpret this statement about disclipline?

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SilentDawning
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Can you help me interpret this statement about disclipline?

Post by SilentDawning » 14 Aug 2013, 05:09

I am reading a book called "Leading without Power" by Max Dupree, a non-LDS writer and manager.

He writes books on leadership but writes them as scripture. There are few examples, but some very high, philosophical ideas. I find myself having to put my own meaning on his statements, and often mark up his books the way I mark up the scriptures.

Although his work is NOT scripture (obviously), I have a couple statements that he makes regarding leadership that I don't completely understand.

I was wondering if anyone could perhaps reflect on what he means by these -- realizing you have as much to go on as I do.
"Delegation takes discipline".
What do you think this statement means?
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

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Origami
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Can you help me interpret this statement about disclipline?

Post by Origami » 14 Aug 2013, 12:19

Maybe several things....

Discipline to delegate appropriately, some things an effective leader just has to do themselves and that requires effort. It is easy to hand off things to others, but If you delegate too many important things you risk being uninformed or less informed with critical details in people, processes, and organizations that can hurt your ability to lead them effectively.

Maybe it takes discipline to follow up with the one delegated to in order to ensure the activity was completed as you intended. Sometimes it is easier to do it yourself?

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Heber13
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Re: Can you help me interpret this statement about disclipli

Post by Heber13 » 14 Aug 2013, 12:45

Discipline can mean:
- Punishment
- control gained by enforcing obedience or order
- orderly or prescribed conduct or pattern of behavior
- self-control
- a rule or system of rules governing conduct or activity

It is hard to know the context wherein that statement is made.

My first thought when I read it since it is a book on leadership, is that the leader needs discipline so the delegation is effective (more along the lines of the definition of having an orderly or prescribed conduct or pattern of behavior). Those that are delegated tasks should have some confidence in the leader of what is expected by the leader or how things can be done, or they are paralyzed by fear or ambiguity to act independently, therefore, the delegation is not effective, it would be better for the leader to do it himself/herself.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Can you help me interpret this statement about disclipli

Post by Curt Sunshine » 14 Aug 2013, 13:59

I see it as needing discipline to implement a "return and report" process that makes the delegation effective - and the discipline needed to let go of the control that would exist without delegation.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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SilentDawning
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Re: Can you help me interpret this statement about disclipli

Post by SilentDawning » 14 Aug 2013, 16:11

I spoke to a retired CEO about this, and landed on Ray's interpretation -- that discipline means the leader disciplines his or herself to get out of the way, even when things don't unfold as the leader would expect, but consistent with the goal to be achieved. It means NOT getting in there and telling people what to do after you've set up the delegation.

I also agree that it's about the structured process of delegating. You have to sit down and really think about what you want, make the objective clear...like Stephen R Covey's performance agreement that includes objectives, guidelines, resources, accountability, and outcomes (if memory serves). It takes discipline for the leader to honor the commitments s/he made in the performance agreement.

But I like these other thoughts. This is really helping me define what Max Dupree means by these things.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

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Kumahito
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Re: Can you help me interpret this statement about disclipli

Post by Kumahito » 14 Aug 2013, 18:01

I hope this helps:

I'm a definite A-type personality. I'm very confident in my ability to do my job - I know I can do it, and it'll be done right. I also have people who work for me; they are very competent and skilled professionals. Oftentimes, I end up with too much on my plate and not enough on their plates, because as things come in I think "well, I'll do that one - it's gotta be done right." Very often I have to be strict with myself, and remind myself that I've got to trust in my people, and give projects to them. I can monitor their outcomes for quality control, but I've got to discipline myself to delegate work to them.

Anyway, that's my two cents.
"An idea that is not dangerous is unworthy of being called an idea at all."
- Oscar Wilde

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Meh Mormon
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Re: Can you help me interpret this statement about disclipli

Post by Meh Mormon » 15 Aug 2013, 09:12

Kumahito wrote:I hope this helps:

I'm a definite A-type personality. I'm very confident in my ability to do my job - I know I can do it, and it'll be done right. I also have people who work for me; they are very competent and skilled professionals. Oftentimes, I end up with too much on my plate and not enough on their plates, because as things come in I think "well, I'll do that one - it's gotta be done right." Very often I have to be strict with myself, and remind myself that I've got to trust in my people, and give projects to them. I can monitor their outcomes for quality control, but I've got to discipline myself to delegate work to them.

Anyway, that's my two cents.
I agree. It seems to go against the saying "If you want something done right, do it yourself!"

For me the statement "Delegation takes discipline" means it takes discipline to know how much you can handle and how much you need others to complete the task.

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Can you help me interpret this statement about disclipli

Post by Curt Sunshine » 15 Aug 2013, 11:47

and when others need the development opportunity that you don't need

and when it's okay to allow others to do something at a lower level than you would have done it
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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