Lehi model or Alma model for disbelieving family?

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mackay11
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Re: Lehi model or Alma model for disbelieving family?

Post by mackay11 » 04 Aug 2013, 19:52

cwald wrote:You see, this would make a great SS lesson and priesthood discussion.

Damn you correlation. :-)

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Wouldn't it just. Lehi was a two-timing absent father and Nephi was bi-polar!!!

Maybe... Just joking of course Ray ;)

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wayfarer
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Re: Lehi model or Alma model for disbelieving family?

Post by wayfarer » 07 Aug 2013, 04:26

love it. great example. it's as if the first part of the book of mormon was written by a different process than the mosiah-onward section.... hmmmm... I mean, starting with King Benjamin's speech, there seems to be a completely different sentiment expressed.
"Those who speak don't know, those who know don't speak." Lao Tzu.
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mackay11
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Re: Lehi model or Alma model for disbelieving family?

Post by mackay11 » 07 Aug 2013, 16:25

wayfarer wrote:love it. great example. it's as if the first part of the book of mormon was written by a different process than the mosiah-onward section.... hmmmm... I mean, starting with King Benjamin's speech, there seems to be a completely different sentiment expressed.
Now now, behave :)

Besides... they were indeed written by a different process. Even from a 'TBM perspective.' One was the personal spiritual journal of a family. The other was a summary of a nation compiled 400-600 years after it happened by someone who wasn't there at the time. Of course there's going to be a difference.

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Ilovechrist77
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Re: Lehi model or Alma model for disbelieving family?

Post by Ilovechrist77 » 07 Aug 2013, 19:51

Ray, how did you get to the understanding that Lehi wasn't a religious man before he was commanded to leave Jerusalem?

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Lehi model or Alma model for disbelieving family?

Post by Curt Sunshine » 07 Aug 2013, 21:59

What I said was:
Lehi wasn't Jewish, and, based on his lack of knowledge of his own ancestry (finding out only by reading the plates), he wasn't a religious man in the traditional, orthodox sense of the time.


The orthodox Jews not only knew their lineage (which was obvious), but they also knew their individual ancestry. For a great example of this, look at the genealogical tracing of Joseph and Mary that occurs in Matthew attempting to show Jesus' place as the rightful heir to the Jewish kingship. Lehi didn't even know he belonged to a specific tribe until he read the plates.

To take the vision situation further, as a prophet-type Lehi was an "outsider" to the people in Jerusalem - much like Samuel, the Lamanite, preaching repentance to the Nephites. Lehi wasn't a Jew, so preaching repentance to the Jews would be a lot like someone from a Mormon offshoot group preaching repentance to the LDS in SLC - or LDS missionaries preaching in the Deep South. It's no wonder he was rejected, from a psycho-social standpoint. They had a hard enough time accepting Jewish prophets calling them to repentance, much less someone who lived in the general area and probably was considered a rich foreigner, to a degree. The condemnation of "the Jews" by Nephi is natural, given his own outsider status and his relative youth and probable lack of age and social maturity.

I personally view Lehi and Nephi as more "flawed" than most members do - and I love that about them. I like flawed prophets, not squeaky clean ones. In general, I don't trust the squeaky clean images, even if I like the people being airbrushed by them.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

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cwald
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Re: Lehi model or Alma model for disbelieving family?

Post by cwald » 08 Aug 2013, 22:36

wayfarer wrote:love it. great example. it's as if the first part of the book of mormon was written by a different process than the mosiah-onward section.... hmmmm... I mean, starting with King Benjamin's speech, there seems to be a completely different sentiment expressed.
Yeah, imagine that. :-)

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