Blah, blah, blah Pioneers blah, blah, blah

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wayfarer
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Re: Blah, blah, blah Pioneers blah, blah, blah

Post by wayfarer » 25 Jul 2013, 19:29

Kumahito, I can understand your feelings on this. My LDS ancestors left Utah to settle in the east, in disgust of the ongoing practice of post manifesto polygamy. I did not grow up with the veneration of the pioneers... we were free thinkers and realists about the church, so the pioneer thing wasn't ever pushed on us. church was at times 35 miles away, so i never went to primary.

but later, i married a wonderful girl whose parents were from solidly idaho LDS pioneers (although she grew up in DC area), and pending time with her relatives, i came to really enjoy the traditions. Then, as i learned the supressed histories within my mother's family secrets (the dirty filthy polyg stories), i also came to revere those of my own progenitors who had tht pioneer background, recognizing their humanity.

it is fascinating to see how human nature mythologizes the past.
"Those who speak don't know, those who know don't speak." Lao Tzu.
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mackay11
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Blah, blah, blah Pioneers blah, blah, blah

Post by mackay11 » 25 Jul 2013, 23:00

There are some pioneers I will celebrate this week:

- cwald, who took a bullet for the rest of us. And never should have had to.
- Elder and Sister Mattsson who had the courage to speak openly about their perspectives on Mormonism even though they probably knew the backlash that would ensue.
- John Dehlin, who, for all his quirks and tangents had been a voice for good in helping people see the viability of balancing faith and doubt.
- Ray Degraw who post under his real name and in doing so gives us the confidence that maybe one day we might be able to be open about our real beliefs too.
- All the mods on the board who devote hours on to create out own safe valley, far away, in the west (north, south and east)

And the rest of you who pull this, sometimes heavy, handcart of emotional, spiritual turmoil with me.

Thanks all.

Ann
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Re: Blah, blah, blah Pioneers blah, blah, blah

Post by Ann » 26 Jul 2013, 13:25

mackay11 wrote:There are some pioneers I will celebrate this week:

- cwald, who took a bullet for the rest of us. And never should have had to.
- Elder and Sister Mattsson who had the courage to speak openly about their perspectives on Mormonism even though they probably knew the backlash that would ensue.
- John Dehlin, who, for all his quirks and tangents had been a voice for good in helping people see the viability of balancing faith and doubt.
- Ray Degraw who post under his real name and in doing so gives us the confidence that maybe one day we might be able to be open about our real beliefs too.
- All the mods on the board who devote hours on to create out own safe valley, far away, in the west (north, south and east)

And the rest of you who pull this, sometimes heavy, handcart of emotional, spiritual turmoil with me.

Thanks all.
I second that. I was warmly welcomed into my husband's family with its handcart pioneers. They've become my people, too. But what's my route to Zion? Thanks to everyone here, and to another real name-user, Brian Johnston.
"Preachers err by trying to talk people into belief; better they reveal the radiance of their own discovery." - Joseph Campbell

"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." - Marcel Proust

"Therefore they said unto him, How were thine eyes opened? He answered and said unto them, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes...." - John 9:10-11

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Re: Blah, blah, blah Pioneers blah, blah, blah

Post by Curt Sunshine » 26 Jul 2013, 15:52

Thank you, mackay11. That means a lot to me.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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cwald
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Re: Blah, blah, blah Pioneers blah, blah, blah

Post by cwald » 26 Jul 2013, 19:32

Ray Degraw wrote:Thank you, mackay11. That means a lot to me.
And I as well.



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  Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn't participate enthusiastically. - Robert Kirby

church0333
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Re: Blah, blah, blah Pioneers blah, blah, blah

Post by church0333 » 26 Jul 2013, 21:26

I agree with Mckay11 thoughts here. I also feel like all of here are pioneers in our own right when we speak up for our rights to worship how and what we will when there are many that would want to silence us. I celebrate all of us.

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Re: Blah, blah, blah Pioneers blah, blah, blah

Post by hawkgrrrl » 26 Jul 2013, 22:42

Almost nobody in my home ward came from pioneer stock (nor did I), so I really didn't get a lot of that until I went to BYU and later lived in Utah. Personally, I sometimes felt like it was a Mormon pissing contest to see who had the best pedigree. But most of the wards I've been in for the last 8 years have focused on how we are all pioneers in one way or another or honoring our ancestors, whether they were Mormon pioneers or not.

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