Positive way of effecting change

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Roy
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Re: Positive way of effecting change

Post by Roy » 16 May 2012, 09:39

mercyngrace wrote:In the wards where the youth were terrors, the parents were cliquish, materialistic, judgmental of one another - inevitably un-righteously so, and marked by a lack of charity and compassion. They saw themselves as either herding lesser saints or being herded by lesser saints. Their lack of respect was contagious. If a ward has this kind of disunity, attending can be a living hell.

Our kids are not just sponges, sucking up every word we say and attitude we express, they are mirrors, reflecting our attitudes back to others.
BINGO - that is exactly what I think. The parents are too civilized to show their contempt outwardly and are instead just cold and distant to us. The kids OTOH - have no such constraints.

I don't want to give the impression that the entire ward was like this. There are some genuinely caring individuals as well. It is also possible that those that treated us badly wouldn't have been quite as difficult if we were better at fitting into the mold. Not that I'm making excuses for them, but some people have difficulty learning to accept people that are different than them.
doug wrote:How about pressing charges? Sounds like a felony to me.
Yes - If I or someone I love were to be poisoned, I would press charges. But this decision is not without consequences. Some may be supportive of your decision to go to the police, others may not. Remember that several girls were involved – each with families, this has the potential to be very divisive in the ward. Like I said before, my primary responsibility is the safety of my family- but there are always repercussions.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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SilentDawning
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Re: Positive way of effecting change

Post by SilentDawning » 16 May 2012, 10:47

Regrettably, people in general only tend to act when they feel there is a crisis. So, to the extent we can create a crisis for people, without making ourselves look silly -- this can effect change. Not appearing at church for a few weeks in a row is one way if anyone cares in your ward. Threatening some kind of firm action if bullying happens again, and following through when it does also creates a crisis.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

doug
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Re: Positive way of effecting change

Post by doug » 16 May 2012, 14:33

Roy wrote:Yes - If I or someone I love were to be poisoned, I would press charges. But this decision is not without consequences. Some may be supportive of your decision to go to the police, others may not. Remember that several girls were involved – each with families, this has the potential to be very divisive in the ward. Like I said before, my primary responsibility is the safety of my family- but there are always repercussions.
There is nothing that is consequence-less ... even doing nothing. I think there is reluctance in the church to expose people, particularly youth, to the full consequences of their actions, either because we think we can "take care of these things" within the context of church culture, or because we don't want to drag the good name of the church through the mud. This is misguided and irresponsible, IMO. Getting a lecture for deliberately poisoning someone ... seriously?
The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also. -- Mark Twain

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BeLikeChrist
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Re: Positive way of effecting change

Post by BeLikeChrist » 17 May 2012, 21:24

the girls should have been charged for poisoning their leader. sure there would be repercussions but you can't tiptoe around that kind of issue. the leader could have died for goodness sakes !

i've heard of other issues that were serious in nature involving youth and police charges could have been considered - but instead leaders took the issue into their own hands and upset the victim and the family and no charges were laid.

i know of one case where a boy of about 10 or 11 reported an adult male masturbating around him (both from church). the man was reported to the Branch President and the BP discouraged the mother of the boy from pressing charges against the man.

years later, both the family of the boy and the man lived in the same stake in another Canadian province. the mother warned other's about the man's tendencies and eventually this man was ex'd for an unrelated violation(false teaching). it would have made things a whole lot simpler if the branch president didn't interfere with the mother's initial wish to press charges against the adult male - instead of letting a situation like that drag on years later.

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Positive way of effecting change

Post by Curt Sunshine » 18 May 2012, 17:32

I just want to add a word of caution about blaming parents for the actions of their children.

Yes, often there is a causal link - but I know really good parents who had kids who, to put it bluntly, just were bad kids. Psychopaths are the extreme example, but sometimes, like in the discussion about those born with disabilities, biology is a capricious lover. Sometimes, I think this is an example of nothing more than there being an opposition in ALL things.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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cwald
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Re: Positive way of effecting change

Post by cwald » 18 May 2012, 17:45

Ray Degraw wrote:I just want to add a word of caution about blaming parents for the actions of their children.....
"Good wombs bring forth bad sons." - Miranda - The Tempest
  Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn't participate enthusiastically. - Robert Kirby

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deancatcat
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Re: Positive way of effecting change

Post by deancatcat » 27 May 2012, 15:06

Hi ~ I am in a doctoral psychology program and we just finished studying bullying. The best way to take care of bullying is to confront the bully, the parents of the bully, the every body around the bully, everyone in the environment that is affected by the bully. Hiding bullying regardless of who's high counsel kid it is, and I do not put a lot of precedence in the hierarchy anyway, must be opened to everyone that is affected. The bullied child or person is not the only people affected by the bully. A bully will pull in buddies while pushing others out. Bullies usually pick on people that are friendly because they are easy targets. They are easily moved into learned helplessness.

I was bullied once in a ward it was awful. I did not understand it back then. But we decided to move because it got so bad. The last day we were in church I stood at the pulpit and gave my testimony about loving people even if we don't like them, and the reason we were moving was because of the treatment we received in the ward. I was chased out by the Bishops cane carrying wife. She swung that cane at me, and I ran in a hurry. What I realized that day, after eight months, I had finally found out that was the bishops wife. We had been ostracized almost immediately upon arrival, and it never got better. To not know the bishops wife in eight months is a sad commentary of how people can be alienated.

We are converts of 10 years. My husband has long hair in the back. I am a counter culture child. When we went to the Temple to be sealed, they took my husbands recommend and checked it out thoroughly to make sure he should be allowed in. My husband has been a faithful member, never complaining, never being negative, always there. Shame on our social structure that creates judgment and demeaning behaviors.

My heart goes out to anyone bullied because Jesus is all about love. And love is what should be the theme every single week. But especially for the youth, so young, so pure, so innocent that get bullied. So sad. Talk about. Talk about it to everyone involved until you cannot talk about it any more. Bullies exposed have no choice but to change their behavior.

Dean (I'm a woman not a guy.....this is my dad's middle name)
deancatcat

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Bruce in Montana
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Re: Positive way of effecting change

Post by Bruce in Montana » 27 May 2012, 16:08

Wow.
I can't help but commenting on the long hair thing. When my wife and I went to the Dallas temple to be sealed in about 1986, I had longer hair myself. I'm 56 and still have a ponytail btw. Yes...I was ostracized. Yep...still am.

What is it with the mainstream church and the unspoken dress-code/haircut-style requirements?

Bullying seems to seek out those that look/act different than the norm....like Jesus.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
-William S.

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cwald
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Re: Positive way of effecting change

Post by cwald » 27 May 2012, 18:12

Bruce in Montana wrote:Wow.

What is it with the mainstream church and the unspoken dress-code/haircut-style requirements?

Bullying seems to seek out those that look/act different than the norm....like Jesus.
Please let me know if you ever figure it out.
  Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn't participate enthusiastically. - Robert Kirby

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