More temple ordinance changes

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DarkJedi
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Re: More temple ordinance changes

Post by DarkJedi » 22 Jul 2020, 05:04

nibbler wrote:
21 Jul 2020, 16:44
Here's the official statement:

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... -july-2020

One standout:
The sacred teachings, promises, and ceremonies of the temple are of ancient origin, and point God’s children to Him as they make further covenants and learn more about His plan, including the role of the Savior Jesus Christ.
It's odd that an ancient origin was mentioned. You'd just about have to go out of your way to include such phrasing, so it starts to feel like a passive aggressive jab. Consider the same statement with a simple revision:
The sacred teachings, promises, and ceremonies of the temple point God’s children to Him as they make further covenants and learn more about His plan, including the role of the Savior Jesus Christ.
The only difference is I took out "are of ancient origin, and."
I agree, Nibbler, and interestingly that line jumped out at me as well. It could mean all kinds of things, but I believe it was said purposefully, whatever the purpose is.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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nibbler
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Re: More temple ordinance changes

Post by nibbler » 22 Jul 2020, 06:18

Three things are included in the "of ancient origin" statement:
1) Teachings
2) Promises
3) Ceremonies

It's not a stretch to say that one and two are of ancient origins. The third? Depends on your definition of ancient.
It’s strange. When I couldn’t find the drop and the plague came, you seemed so far away I would not ever be able to find you again. But I know now that you were here all along, and that nothing, not the Black Death nor seven hundred years, nor death nor things to come nor any other creature could ever separate me from your caring and concern. It was with me every minute.
― Connie Willis , Doomsday Book

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DarkJedi
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Re: More temple ordinance changes

Post by DarkJedi » 22 Jul 2020, 06:54

The other thing I've been wondering about has been is this a change that has been in the works or is it something in response to COVID so we can get the temples open and people will feel OK going? If the desire is to "enhance the temple learning experience" as stated it would seem that perhaps this has been coming for a bit. But then there's the timing of the announcement and I would not feel comfortable being that close, masked or not and gloved or not, to another person. I don't like to be touched anyway, and especially not now.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

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nibbler
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Re: More temple ordinance changes

Post by nibbler » 22 Jul 2020, 09:02

I've already seen a few people on social media announce that they're excited to go back to see what the changes are. I think at least a small part of it is drumming up interest through curiosity.

I know the press release asked not to speculate... but what else am I supposed to do with an announcement like that? Cynical me doesn't know whether that's because of the sacred nature of the changes or because if everyone knew what the changes were ahead of time they might say, "It's just [fill in the blank]? I'll stay home."

Speculation time? :twisted:

The enhanced learning experience could mean something as simple as reintroducing the temple movie.

If it is to drum up interest the timing is indeed strange. Most temples are closed and the few that are open are only open for a very limited subset of saints.
It’s strange. When I couldn’t find the drop and the plague came, you seemed so far away I would not ever be able to find you again. But I know now that you were here all along, and that nothing, not the Black Death nor seven hundred years, nor death nor things to come nor any other creature could ever separate me from your caring and concern. It was with me every minute.
― Connie Willis , Doomsday Book

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On Own Now
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Re: More temple ordinance changes

Post by On Own Now » 22 Jul 2020, 16:00

My guess is that the Church has taken to heart some of the suggested changes that have been made over the years here at StayLDS. Personally, I'm betting on this one:
On Own Now wrote:
04 Feb 2014, 11:04
I do not believe the story of Adam and Eve, and by extension, the Temple, can ever be truly equalized if taken as a story that represents men (Adam) and women (Eve). IMO, it only works if taken as a story which represents PEOPLE (Adam and Eve).

I think the story would be much better if told as the story of Sally and her pet ferrets, Buckaroo and Mr. Hide. That way there would be no gender roles, expectations, or comparison implied.
- - -
“Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves.” ― Carl Jung
- - -
"Let us therefore no longer pass judgment on one another, but resolve instead never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of another." ― Romans 14:13
- - -

Minyan Man
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Re: More temple ordinance changes

Post by Minyan Man » 22 Jul 2020, 19:39

I personally believe that it is close to impossible for the church to admit that any person contained in scripture is fictional or symbolic.
If they did that then the general membership would be left to wonder, what else is in the same category?

Compared to prior generations, I have seen a lot of changes since I've joined the church (1970). They are too numerous to list.
I do wonder: what would prior generations think? would the recognize the church from their generation? I think specifically of
my in-laws. These are interesting times in so many ways.

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Heber13
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Re: More temple ordinance changes

Post by Heber13 » 23 Jul 2020, 09:11

It would require the first step of just acknowledging "SOME" characters in the Bible were not historical, but stuff of legends and lore from oral histories. Once they got that across and accepted, they would have a better chance of teaching more of the bible in terms of allegory and less about historicity.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

Curt Sunshine
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Re: More temple ordinance changes

Post by Curt Sunshine » 23 Jul 2020, 19:02

Thanks for making me laugh too hard to be eligible to attend the temple, On Own Now. :lol:
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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QuestionAbound
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Re: More temple ordinance changes

Post by QuestionAbound » 01 Aug 2020, 05:15

Not that my vote matters, but if I did have a vote and if it did matter, I would vote to either eliminate the new name or change it so that both spouses know each other's new name. That would be a unifying factor in a marriage instead of a dividing one.

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DarkJedi
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Re: More temple ordinance changes

Post by DarkJedi » 01 Aug 2020, 07:03

Heber13 wrote:
23 Jul 2020, 09:11
It would require the first step of just acknowledging "SOME" characters in the Bible were not historical, but stuff of legends and lore from oral histories. Once they got that across and accepted, they would have a better chance of teaching more of the bible in terms of allegory and less about historicity.
Jews, for the most part,have achieved this because they're willing to listen to the "so-called scholars" that are sometimes maligned by the LDS hierarchy (although there has been some shift in that respect of late). For instance, Jews recognize that Job was probably not an actual single individual but more an amalgam of different traditional stories combined into one with the moral of the story being the same. Most Jews also don't believe what we call the Old Testament is historical, rather it makes reference to some historical timeframes and events that did actually occur (Cyrus the Great, for example). Maybe in 5500 years we'll get there....
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

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