I hope Sacrament Meetings get better.

Public forum for topics that don't fit into the other categories.
User avatar
SamBee
Posts: 5389
Joined: 14 Mar 2010, 04:55

Re: I hope Sacrament Meetings get better.

Post by SamBee » 08 Nov 2019, 16:57

DarkJedi wrote:
30 Oct 2019, 04:52
I tend to decide pretty early if I'm going to listen to a speaker or not, and it's very dependent on what they say and how they present themselves in the first minute or two. Honestly if the first line is something like "The bishop caught me in the hall last week even though I was trying to hide from him because I knew he was looking for speakers..." I tune out right then.
My red flags are:
* "I was asked to talk on..." - Sounds begrudging
* "The Bible/... Dictionary defines X as" - a good speech doesn't need that. Use your own words!

I also switch off often when they talk about families, marriage or children. I don't hate children, I actually quite like them up to a point, but I'm a single man so they aren't part of my own life at the moment, and I don't have much to do with them because of that. These talks also rub my nose in my failure to marry and have kids.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

User avatar
Heavy_Laden
Posts: 65
Joined: 27 Jul 2013, 19:51
Location: Upper Midwest United States

Re: I hope Sacrament Meetings get better.

Post by Heavy_Laden » 09 Nov 2019, 07:36

SamBee wrote:
08 Nov 2019, 16:57
DarkJedi wrote:
30 Oct 2019, 04:52
I tend to decide pretty early if I'm going to listen to a speaker or not, and it's very dependent on what they say and how they present themselves in the first minute or two. Honestly if the first line is something like "The bishop caught me in the hall last week even though I was trying to hide from him because I knew he was looking for speakers..." I tune out right then.
My red flags are:
* "I was asked to talk on..." - Sounds begrudging
* "The Bible/... Dictionary defines X as" - a good speech doesn't need that. Use your own words!

I also switch off often when they talk about families, marriage or children. I don't hate children, I actually quite like them up to a point, but I'm a single man so they aren't part of my own life at the moment, and I don't have much to do with them because of that. These talks also rub my nose in my failure to marry and have kids.
I also struggle with topics that are not applying to me. Nothing is more boring and loathful for me to listen to than talks on Temple attendance, temple stories, families can be together forever or even worse, social issues. I have endured them all over the years, tune out almost immediately. My family won't be together forever, I don't have a TR and only been once and I don't care about your social stances. Prideful talk and preaching to the choir doesn't help investigators and those who will never have all those great experiences that TBMs have.

I think sacrament meeting, in particular, should be taylored to people who are investigators, those who struggle and basic stories of Jesus Christ. No inside baseball talks, no terms that people outside of the community won't understand and absolutely no talk of social issues. Basics should be talked about in terms that even Senior Primary would understand.

As a country and a LDS community, we are woefully uninformed about Jesus Christ's ministry and time on the earth. I recently attended a Elder's Q meeting where the High Priest said that he never read the New Testament and he was in his 60's. He reads the Book of Mormon regularly and has read it cover to cover many times, but the Bible he just recently did. Amazing.. I don't think I would admit that in public but it helped with his message (I guess...). :problem:
I'm an Independent Mormon and it's okay.

Minyan Man
Posts: 1720
Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 13:40

Re: I hope Sacrament Meetings get better.

Post by Minyan Man » 09 Nov 2019, 09:59

It is easy for me to make a list of topics I don't want to hear at sacrament meeting. What are some topics you want to hear?
This is a few of mine:
- What does it mean to live a Christ centered life?
- What did Jesus teach us about the way he lived his life?
- What are your favorite stories from scripture & why?
- What do the parables teach us? Which are your favorites?
- What are the most impactful experiences in life that testify that the gospel is true?
- More music & stories about the hymns.

User avatar
DarkJedi
Posts: 6715
Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: I hope Sacrament Meetings get better.

Post by DarkJedi » 10 Nov 2019, 05:29

Heavy_Laden wrote:
09 Nov 2019, 07:36
I also struggle with topics that are not applying to me. Nothing is more boring and loathful for me to listen to than talks on Temple attendance, temple stories, families can be together forever or even worse, social issues. I have endured them all over the years, tune out almost immediately. My family won't be together forever, I don't have a TR and only been once and I don't care about your social stances. Prideful talk and preaching to the choir doesn't help investigators and those who will never have all those great experiences that TBMs have.
I don't think you should be so sure your family won't be together forever based on what you say here. I recognize that most members might believe that, but I don't see that idea firmly planted in scripture.
I think sacrament meeting, in particular, should be taylored to people who are investigators, those who struggle and basic stories of Jesus Christ. No inside baseball talks, no terms that people outside of the community won't understand and absolutely no talk of social issues. Basics should be talked about in terms that even Senior Primary would understand.
I agree to that extent that I believe SM should stick to the basics.
As a country and a LDS community, we are woefully uninformed about Jesus Christ's ministry and time on the earth. I recently attended a Elder's Q meeting where the High Priest said that he never read the New Testament and he was in his 60's. He reads the Book of Mormon regularly and has read it cover to cover many times, but the Bible he just recently did. Amazing.. I don't think I would admit that in public but it helped with his message (I guess...). :problem:
I think this last point, at least for church members, is due to an overemphasis on the Book of Mormon. I do believe the BoM is a good book and can and does bring people closer to God and Jesus Christ. I have sad this a few times in meetings and from the pulpit: We're supposed to feast on the words of Christ and the words of Christ are found in the four gospels - that's where what he actually said and did are recorded. Were I stranded with only one book of scripture I'd prefer it to be the NT (and if only one book was there, I'd choose Luke).
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

User avatar
DarkJedi
Posts: 6715
Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: I hope Sacrament Meetings get better.

Post by DarkJedi » 10 Nov 2019, 05:32

Minyan Man wrote:
09 Nov 2019, 09:59
It is easy for me to make a list of topics I don't want to hear at sacrament meeting. What are some topics you want to hear?
This is a few of mine:
- What does it mean to live a Christ centered life?
- What did Jesus teach us about the way he lived his life?
- What are your favorite stories from scripture & why?
- What do the parables teach us? Which are your favorites?
- What are the most impactful experiences in life that testify that the gospel is true?
- More music & stories about the hymns.
Almost any gospel topic can be focused on Christ, and that's what I want to hear. We had a visiting GA Seventy at our last stake conference and he did make the point in the Sunday session. It is admittedly harder to make a topic such as tithing Christ centered - my own SP has said in that situation where it's hard to make a topic Christ centered the bishopric should reconsider the topic. That said, I still hear talks that fail to mention the Savior. Kudos to my own ward, they do pretty well, Some wards are much worse.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

User avatar
SamBee
Posts: 5389
Joined: 14 Mar 2010, 04:55

Re: I hope Sacrament Meetings get better.

Post by SamBee » 11 Nov 2019, 06:18

I have mixed feelings about sticking to the basics, here's why:

* They are great for people new to the church and allow a focus.
* If we stick to the same handful of topics (or at least a smaller number), we risk becoming even more repetitive.

Yes, I think it's good to focus on the Savior, but get some variety in too. If we talked every single week about the atonement, it could get boring so talk about Jesus' teachings as well. They come as a package.

As for the temple - I'm not a huge fan of the endowment. My favorite place in there is the baptistry, which has always had the best atmosphere. Before I went I was pretty bewildered by what some people said about the temple, and I still struggle to connect with what some people say about it. My main reason for doing endowments is to get to the Celestial Room. I used to enjoy the film, but the parts I enjoyed have been cut down.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

Curt Sunshine
Site Admin
Posts: 16610
Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 20:24

Re: I hope Sacrament Meetings get better.

Post by Curt Sunshine » 11 Nov 2019, 09:02

My only deep desire for Sacrament Meeting is that it be a worship service, not another Sunday School or PH/RS/YW/YM/Primary class.

As long as the talks are focused on Jesus and/or Heavenly Parent(s) in some real and meaningful way, I am happy.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

User avatar
DarkJedi
Posts: 6715
Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: I hope Sacrament Meetings get better.

Post by DarkJedi » 11 Nov 2019, 09:28

Curt Sunshine wrote:
11 Nov 2019, 09:02
My only deep desire for Sacrament Meeting is that it be a worship service, not another Sunday School or PH/RS/YW/YM/Primary class.

As long as the talks are focused on Jesus and/or Heavenly Parent(s) in some real and meaningful way, I am happy.
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Me too.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

Minyan Man
Posts: 1720
Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 13:40

Re: I hope Sacrament Meetings get better.

Post by Minyan Man » 11 Nov 2019, 10:32

I would like some personal application for the basics of the gospel. For example:
- If you have difficulty praying, try doing ...
- If you have difficulty forgiving someone who's hurt you, try doing ...
- If that doesn't work try "x, y or z".

One answer for applying gospel principles, doesn't fit all.

Post Reply