Consider the Suit

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Curt Sunshine
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Re: Consider the Suit

Post by Curt Sunshine » 05 Jul 2012, 13:02

Sam, please warn me first, so I can make sure I'm not there that week. ;)
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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SamBee
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Re: Consider the Suit

Post by SamBee » 08 Jul 2012, 08:17

Nephite wrote:
SamBee wrote:
Brian Johnston wrote:My dream is to wear loose-fitting, comfortable Middle Eastern or African robes and sandles all the time some day :-)
I want to go into church wearing lederhosen one day...
Do it!
Got to buy some first!!!
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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Minyan Man
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Re: Consider the Suit

Post by Minyan Man » 08 Jul 2012, 08:23

Today, the temperature is going to be in the triple digits.
I don't think I will consider the suit for a change.

Mike from Milton.

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SilentDawning
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Re: Consider the Suit

Post by SilentDawning » 08 Jul 2012, 17:52

I'd like to show up with a pair of slacks and a mandarin collar shirt, and some hip shoes. I just lost a lot of weight and I look totally different. It would be a nice change.

How do people in other Christian churches dress? Anyone know?
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"Stage 5 is where you no longer believe the gospel as its literally or traditionally taught. Nonetheless, you find your own way to be active and at peace within it". -- SD

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

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Curt Sunshine
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Re: Consider the Suit

Post by Curt Sunshine » 08 Jul 2012, 19:33

My son wants to wear a full kilt outfit his last week in church here.

I love my son. :lol:
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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Beefster
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Re: Consider the Suit

Post by Beefster » 11 Aug 2017, 20:17

I think this is a really interesting perspective that really puts things in a different light.

At one point, I thought that maybe missionaries should adopt a business casual look in order to be less intimidating. When people see suits, they think of top executives, corporate sales reps, lawyers, finance guys, etc... and put up a barrier because most of these kinds of people are not to be trusted. I think it was good when the dress code was "relaxed" in mid-2013 (Elders can now wear khakis with their white shirts, but backpacks were banned), as it makes them less intimidating. I guess when you consider that missionaries and GAs are actual representatives of the church, I can see why dressing appropriately for that matters. Then again, I've seen plenty of sales reps who dress business casual, so I don't see the problem there.

I think it's an unnecessary tradition that the suit is the uniform of the priesthood. I have never felt the need to be dressed up for home teaching (but I go along with it if my comp insists), I see no problem with officiating the sacrament in a plaid shirt and no tie, and I have probably given more blessings in casual wear than I have in a white shirt and tie. One of these days, I'll give up the white shirt and tie at church and show up business casual just to show I'm done with the tradition, but like one of the posts here mentioned, I don't exactly want to send the wrong message about my commitment to the gospel.

I do think there is value in dressing differently for church/Sunday, but I don't think that needs to be a suit.
Boys are governed by rules. Men are governed by principles.

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nibbler
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Re: Consider the Suit

Post by nibbler » 12 Aug 2017, 06:00

When I was more orthodox I really struggled with maintaining a sense of identity. What part of my personality did I need to change? What parts were okay to keep? Wrong or right I felt a pull to conform to a cultural standard, some refer to it as the "Morg". The Mormon Borg. The closer I got to "perfection" the closer I got to becoming a clone. Something that wasn't me.

I think there are several elements of the culture that can steer people in this direction. Uniformity in beliefs. Uniformity in dress. Uniformity in behavior. The goal of becoming perfect and tying the concept of perfection to one cultural standard. I feel the "uniform of the priesthood" plays it's part in this phenomenon that some experience.

Typical general conference priesthood session:
Image
Every once in a while I'll attend other church services for the sake of diversity. When I visit other churches I try to err on the side of being overdressed so I show up in what I would ordinarily show up to church in (the uniform of the priesthood sans suit coat, sometimes a colored shirt) except I drop the tie. I find that most of the time showing up in dress pants and a button down long sleeved shirt is overkill. The wider world culture dress code has really relaxed in the last several decades.

Honestly, I think church leadership views relaxed cultural standards as proof that they've successfully held the line while the wicked world has deteriorated around them. Meanwhile I feel that aspect of our culture comes across as very Rameumptom-like.

I don't wear suit coats at church. I've been harassed a few times for not wearing one, legitimately harassed by leadership. It didn't bother me. I know many members have the expectation that priesthood holders should emulate the leaders, even in matters of attire and grooming.
“We understand how dangerous a mask can be. We all become what we pretend to be.”
― Patrick Rothfuss


“No man, for any considerable period, can wear one face to himself and another to the multitude, without finally getting bewildered as to which may be the true.”
― Nathaniel Hawthorne

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DarkJedi
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Re: Consider the Suit

Post by DarkJedi » 12 Aug 2017, 06:54

I guess I am fortunate to live where I do. While we have our fair share of old guards, scribes and Pharisees, we also have a good number of more moderate and progressive folks. On any given Sunday around a third of our men and boys are dressed in a shirt other than white. Men and boys are not passed over for administering the sacrament based on shirt color. There are usually a handful of men who don't wear ties as well. Most men in the congregation don't wear suit coats in the summer. I only wear a suit when I am on official business and in my own ward I usually wear a colored shirt (because I'm a rebel ;) ).
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Curt Sunshine
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Re: Consider the Suit

Post by Curt Sunshine » 12 Aug 2017, 07:27

The "uniform of the Priesthood" is a made-up, cultural concept - and it isn't followed world-wide.

That last fact alone is instructive.

My wife and I are going to the temple in a couple of hours. I will show up in dress pants and a white shirt. No suit coat and no tie. I have shown up in a colored dress shirt - and once, while traveling, in jeans and a polo shirt. A few months ago, a couple who were traveling were hesitant to do a session because they were dressed casually (the wife was wearing jean shorts). I was the coordinator that day, was at the front desk at the time, saw them, and invited them in - and the Temple President assured them how they were dressed was "just fine".
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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Beefster
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Re: Consider the Suit

Post by Beefster » 12 Aug 2017, 18:04

Ray, your tie-less temple attire and story of the casual couple have given me courage to begin to change things.

I am moving into a new ward in a week. Maybe I'll use that as an opportunity to start something new. Perhaps I'll start with something simple such as ditching the tie. I've done it on accident before and nobody seems to care when I do. Doesn't change the fact that I was very self-conscious about it.
Boys are governed by rules. Men are governed by principles.

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