We can't get married

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TinSoldier
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Joined: 25 Jan 2020, 01:51

Re: We can't get married

Post by TinSoldier » 06 Feb 2020, 23:43

There might be an interesting development going on this week. MJ's daughter (27 y/o) was assaulted by her boyfriend. Since then MJ's "ex" has been staying at her apartment. There's a possibility that he might not really live here again, but I'm not holding my breath yet.

Roy
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Re: We can't get married

Post by Roy » 09 Feb 2020, 09:10

I am so sorry to hear about MJ's daughter. That is truly terrible news. :cry:
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SilentDawning
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Re: We can't get married

Post by SilentDawning » 09 Feb 2020, 19:28

I guess I can't comment confidently on the sealing aspect of it -- it's something someone in the "knowing hierarchy" of the church would have to answer definitively. But taking the perspective of a leader with an agenda to further the "aims" of the church. I wouldn't give a definitive answer in this life -- as I would not want to enable co-habitation. I wouldn't want to lead people to think they can cohabit in this life and then take care of it in the next through a sealing then. I would want to answer in a way that closes the loop hole to encourage by-the-book living the gospel in this life.

It is certainly a question that might be run up the ladder though. I might allow it after they died in hopes there was an opportunity for further repentance then.

I would very much, perhaps in the presence of a lawyer and witnesses in some kind of credible document, write out my wishes to be sealed in the temple after death of us both however. I would make sure someone we trust in this life has both originals, and I would probably ask my Bishop to meet with me as I got close to the end -- to share what I believe and give him my document expressing my wishes after death. I would make it as easy as possible for my Bishop to know what my desires are, whether he, or in the case of after death probably, the temple president, know what my desires are after death. And those of G. Who knows what they will do with it.

The new testament seems to say that men and women are not married in heaven, however. It seems like it needs to happen in this life if you take the NT literally.

But my perspective is this -- temporal matters matter, and if the situation of living together works, particularly since celebacy is the case, I would do what is necessary to survive financially. I would also leave the other person in the best state if I pass first. I also believe, rightly or wrongly, that God takes a LONG VIEW of our lives. The whole landcape is considered and not just what he sees at death.

He considers these albeit messy and uncertain situations, and as the scriptures say, in the end we will agree that his judgments are just. What is considered just by the person being judged is usually far more lenient than what the judge considers just if left to his own devices. I know that from being a teacher of adults all my life. So I think God errs on the side of leniency.

I think/hope God will look at your whole situation and move forward with compassion. I feel for your situation.

I want to thank you for opening up my mind to the idea that people not married in this life at all might be sealed in the next life. Very interesting situation. Best to leave a clear, paper trail for after you have moved on to a better place to facilitate making it happen.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

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TinSoldier
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Joined: 25 Jan 2020, 01:51

Re: We can't get married

Post by TinSoldier » 11 Feb 2020, 19:52

Like I said earlier in this thread, I have only heard of one case where a couple was sealed when they weren't married in this life. We watched a movie a year or so ago about one of the handcart companies that had a lot of trials on their journey. I can't recall the name of the film or which company it was. The couple had agreed to wait until they arrived in Utah to get married for some reason, but the man died during the trip. At the end of the movie it said that much later, I think in the 1990's, one of the general authorities heard about the story and approved them being sealed together.
I'd be happy to put things in writing to request we be sealed, but I'm not sure who to give that to. In the wake of a messy divorce, I don't have a good relationship with most of my kids and the one I do get along with is no longer interested at all in the church. I learned the hard way that just because I refuse to bad-mouth my ex to the kids, it doesn't mean my ex will do the same thing. From what I've heard, she had no filter when it came to running me down to the kids and it obviously had an effect. I thought it was interesting that one of my aunts brought up having us sealed after we are gone, a couple of months ago. I had never discussed it with her, but she knows our situation. The thing is, she's in her 80s and not in the best of health, so I am skeptical she'll be around or in shape to follow through with that. I guess I could still leave a document with her and hope that at least one of her kids, my cousins, would pursue it. I certainly can't rely on my bishop, from his attitude on the subject I believe he would firmly object. I do know my home teacher/minister (I still don't have the terminology down since they changed it) and one other friend in the ward who might assist with something like that. MJ is the only member in her family and to some extent they've generally been anti.

Like you, I have to believe the Heavenly Father has compassion and leniency with how he sort out some of the messy situations we see here on earth, such as to whom my father can be sealed since he couldn't with my mother, or for that matter anyone who doesn't marry at all.

Gomezaddams51
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Re: We can't get married

Post by Gomezaddams51 » 04 May 2020, 11:58

I have a suggestion for you. Get married in a civil ceremony and then you won't be breaking any asinine rules.

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DarkJedi
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Re: We can't get married

Post by DarkJedi » 04 May 2020, 16:17

Gomezaddams51 wrote:
04 May 2020, 11:58
I have a suggestion for you. Get married in a civil ceremony and then you won't be breaking any asinine rules.
The church's rules aren't the only considerations in this case. Tinsoldier stated in one of the earlier posts that there are other considerations involving finances, loss of income, etc.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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TinSoldier
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Joined: 25 Jan 2020, 01:51

Re: We can't get married

Post by TinSoldier » 10 May 2020, 22:23

DarkJedi wrote:
04 May 2020, 16:17
Gomezaddams51 wrote:
04 May 2020, 11:58
I have a suggestion for you. Get married in a civil ceremony and then you won't be breaking any asinine rules.
The church's rules aren't the only considerations in this case. Tinsoldier stated in one of the earlier posts that there are other considerations involving finances, loss of income, etc.
Exactly. Foremost among the problems is, as I said earlier, if we marry then she will lose access to benefits that would support her after I'm gone. How responsible would it be for me to insist we marry if it meant that? Seems to me like that would be immoral.

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Heber13
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Re: We can't get married

Post by Heber13 » 12 May 2020, 08:38

I've been reading through this thread for the first time, and appreciate you sharing your story and your trials you have and the decisions to make.

I think there is a point where our unique situations don't always fit into the rules for society or the church. We have to be careful we aren't compromising our integrity, but we also are given trials to help challenge us and help us focus on what is truly important, and what our highest values are. Not just black and white, good or bad, sin or obedience. But shades of gray that make us think of how we want to choose to become the best person we can, and to please our Heavenly Father with our ability to choose among difficult choices, even sometimes the choices others won't agree with. We can't rely on validation from others or the bishop to decide what is right for us.

I hope that is helpful and not something that is off-putting. You are seeking guidance from great people, as you should. That is wise to seek guidance. But it isn't your bishop's life to live or deal with.

I went through tough circumstances with my divorce, and was disappointed with things some people told me, and had to realize it is OK to decide for myself, get my own revelations, seek approval from God, not others. It isn't always easy, but it sometimes is the way before us.

Christ was teaching us to choose above rules that are before us, and seeking the more important thigns in our situation when he taught:
Mark 2
23 And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.

24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?

25 And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?

26 How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?

27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
I think God will help you feel in your heart for your own situation what is right for you. I feel like our gospel teaches us that there are ways to continue temple blessings and other things after this life. It gets worked out. Most important is keeping our hearts pure and seeking God's will.

We are supposed to find our joy in this life and be wise with our choices. We should not live in fear of whether others approve or not. If we are hungry on the sabbath, we should eat. God understands the pure in heart.

Good luck. I'm glad you are here to share your story. Thanks!
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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