So glad to know I’m not alone

Public forum, tell us about yourself and what brings you to StayLDS!
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sistercellophane
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Joined: 21 Dec 2017, 20:02

So glad to know I’m not alone

Post by sistercellophane » 26 Dec 2017, 16:41

I was excited to find a place to meet others who maybe feel as I do. I live in what I call “bubble land” with people who are “bubble people” and Professional Mormons. I am neither one of those things. I have a testimony, I have served a mission, but I did not grow up in bubble land (thank goodness) and I certainly did not grow up in a bubble. I have dealt with really hard issues in my life, I am a real person with real feelings, but I am not accepted by the bubble people. I and my family have been shoved to the side and mistreated more times than I can count. Why would I ever want to be around these people? And then the piece de resistance is when they then point their judgmental fingers at me and say I’m not valiant. Yeah, ok bubble people. Anyway, I could go on and on but I’ll stop for now. Thanks to anyone who listened, and God bless.


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DarkJedi
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Re: So glad to know I’m not alone

Post by DarkJedi » 26 Dec 2017, 19:16

Welcome to the forum. I'm glad you found us.

I think the toughest part about being a Mormon is other Mormons. I jokingly say I wouldn't want to live in Utah because there are too many Mormons there. But it's not really a joke - I mean it.

Testimony is important and can help, but sometimes it just seems it's not enough to overcome or ignore it all. People in other churches have testimonies too. People can "live the gospel" outside the church and be happy doing so. I'm not saying you should leave the church, we are StayLDS after all - I'm just pointing out that I understand it can be difficult and things are not always as they seem to the more orthodox believers.

I hpe we can be of help to yuo in some small way. Thanks for saying hi.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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LookingHard
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Re: So glad to know I’m not alone

Post by LookingHard » 26 Dec 2017, 20:21

Welcome. I hope you find the folks at this site a welcome sanity check.

"Professional Mormons". :-) :-)

I have never lived in the bubble, but I know I for one wouldn't care for it at all - ESPECIALLY since my faith crisis.

Sorry for the pain you have been given by the judgement.

Curt Sunshine
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Re: So glad to know I’m not alone

Post by Curt Sunshine » 26 Dec 2017, 20:59

Welcome to our Island of Misfit Toys. I hope you can find a degree of peace here.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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Beefster
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Re: So glad to know I’m not alone

Post by Beefster » 27 Dec 2017, 08:55

DarkJedi wrote:
26 Dec 2017, 19:16
I jokingly say I wouldn't want to live in Utah because there are too many Mormons there. But it's not really a joke - I mean it.
I do the same and some people get super defensive about it. I don't really understand why. I had enough Provo for one lifetime.

Welcome to the forum. My stay here was seeded by cultural crap, so I understand you on some level.

If you're single and in your mid-20s, move to Denver. I bet we'd be good friends. :P
Boys are governed by rules. Men are governed by principles.

Sometimes our journeys take us to unexpected places. That is a truly beautiful thing.

Roy
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Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: So glad to know I’m not alone

Post by Roy » 27 Dec 2017, 16:51

You are not alone!
sistercellophane wrote:
26 Dec 2017, 16:41
I live in what I call “bubble land” with people who are “bubble people” and Professional Mormons
I know people that seem to be superficial. What I mean by that is that they seem to put on a face of happiness. One in particular is my wife's VT and RS president. When my wife was commenting on how lucky we have been that my old clunker of a car hung on for so many years - this sister exclaimed "tithing blessings!"

This sister is a good person that will do a great amount to help out. She has brought my family meals or done babysitting several times and thanked us for the opportunity.

She finds it hard to accept help. She has had a debilitating illness and has needed support from her family and community for the care of her family. This is something that has been very humbling for her.

She cannot fathom the mindset of people who are distanced from the church. She sees the assigned visits from VT/HT or other church representatives as loving and cannot perceive them as having an agenda. I think this is mainly because she loves the church and honestly believes that the most loving thing to do is to help others be active in the church too.

I share this because this is someone that does definitely have some "bubble" qualities and some of that honestly does become an impediment to her understanding how others (outside the bubble) may feel. On the other hand, she is a true salt of the earth person without spite or guile. She also has had sorrows and continuing challenges that make her difficult to dismiss as just a product of an easy and sheltered existence.

I think it would be helpful to try to understand people like this - even if they may have a hard time understanding you. I further suggest that disparaging classifications like bubble people will likely not help in this task. (We do not know each other yet but please know that I am not trying to be hurtful in that suggestion.)

One thing that helps me at times is imagining that I am an imbedded anthropologist living with a sub-culture. They have their quirks and their ceremonies - their social structures and their life milestones. What makes them tick? What about their worldview makes their lives meaningful? How does the tribe mark belonging? This has been helpful for me at times to depersonalize what is being said. I am not always successful but sometimes it helps. :mrgreen:

Welcome to the group. I look forward to hearing more about specific things that have been challenging for you.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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SamBee
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Re: So glad to know I’m not alone

Post by SamBee » 27 Dec 2017, 17:32

Contrary to popular opinion, a bubble is not always a bad thing. Sure, there are evil and stupidity among church members, but in the outer world there is even worse.

I have seen both sides of the tracks, but there is something to be said for not taking drugs or drinking, and striving towards certain ideals.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

sistercellophane
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Joined: 21 Dec 2017, 20:02

Re: So glad to know I’m not alone

Post by sistercellophane » 27 Dec 2017, 17:43

Thank you to all who welcomed me here. No, I’m not going to take the time to try to understand the bubble people. I’m too busy grieving for the son who died a few years ago (my second child who has died btw) to worry about why the people around here who call themselves Christians don’t bother to act like it when it counts. (I’m not angry at you for saying that Roy, I’m just responding). I’m frustrated at the blatant hypocrisy that these people display. Of course there are some good members here and there, but they have been as absent as anyone else. I have been lied to, stolen from, yelled at in RS, gossiped about, refused entry into homes. I have had my deceased sons t-shirts dumped on my front porch when the gal who volunteered to help me make a quilt with them decided she didn’t want to be friends anymore. That was it for me, I mentally and spiritually just could not take it anymore. I reached my breaking point with these people. We are moving out of state in a few years and then I will go back to church. But I don’t know if I can ever open myself up again, it just feels too risky. I don’t even know if I can ever have another calling, my confidence has been shattered.
I don’t know how to highlight comments, but thanks again for all of the welcomes and the “I hear ya’s”


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Roy
Posts: 5116
Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: So glad to know I’m not alone

Post by Roy » 28 Dec 2017, 08:28

sistercellophane wrote:
27 Dec 2017, 17:54
Thank you to all who welcomed me here. No, I’m not going to take the time to try to understand the bubble people. I’m too busy grieving for the son who died a few years ago (my second child who has died btw)
I am so very sorry for your loss. It was the death of my own child that became the catalyst for my own faith crisis and "assumptive world collapse". The ward did not help. I stopped going to church. I was the ward mission leader at the time. It was reported to me that the bishop gave a talk about how each of us will have a personal trial in our lives and it is up to us to let it break us or to let it make us stronger. The coworker who reported this to me felt that bishop was talking about me and how I was letting my grief keep me out of the celestial kingdom and break apart my eternal family.

Let me here state that I believe that it is the bonds of love that I have with my children that forge an eternal link between us. Church participation is not a factor for me. I had to figure that out on my own. The church is not the bond with my children, living or deceased.

I stopped paying tithing because I had felt that I had been paying to secure blessings that now seemed pretty shaky. The bishop said at tithing settlement that he could sympathize as a man but as a church administrator it was his duty to confiscate my temple recommend.

Anyway, Suffice it to say that our church does not often do a great job to responding to various forms of grief. Often times church members seem more concerned with projecting and protecting the narrative of eternal families.
sistercellophane wrote:
27 Dec 2017, 17:54
to worry about why the people around here who call themselves Christians don’t bother to act like it when it counts. (I’m not angry at you for saying that Roy, I’m just responding). I’m frustrated at the blatant hypocrisy that these people display. Of course there are some good members here and there, but they have been as absent as anyone else.
For me, the key here is the last phrase. "They have been as [blank] as anyone else."

Part of my StayLDS strategy is to have incredibly low expectations. I certainly do not expect better behavior from church members than from non-members. In some of the Christian virtues of mercy, forgiveness, tolerance, humility, and not judging - church members as a group do not tend to perform particularly well. I diversify my social support network so that I do not rely on church members for meeting my social needs. Then I set really low expectations (somewhere in the range of live and let live). I do get surprised when people exceed these expectations.

In my experience, church people are just people and can be just as mean spirited and petty as anyone else.
sistercellophane wrote:
27 Dec 2017, 17:54
I have been lied to, stolen from, yelled at in RS, gossiped about, refused entry into homes. I have had my deceased sons t-shirts dumped on my front porch when the gal who volunteered to help me make a quilt with them decided she didn’t want to be friends anymore. That was it for me, I mentally and spiritually just could not take it anymore. I reached my breaking point with these people. We are moving out of state in a few years and then I will go back to church. But I don’t know if I can ever open myself up again, it just feels too risky. I don’t even know if I can ever have another calling, my confidence has been shattered.
I am very sorry for that. It sounds like you have been deeply hurt at a vulnerable time. That was not acceptable or right. Even now, all these years later (we lost our baby 8 years ago) I do not let my guard down at church. It is a process of risk/benefit analysis, managing the situation, and coping mechanisms. I do believe it gets better - however, in my experience it never goes back to the way it was.

My hugs to you. This journey we are on is not easy and there is no "right way" to walk it.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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Heber13
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Re: So glad to know I’m not alone

Post by Heber13 » 28 Dec 2017, 15:54

First...welcome and thanks for sharing part of your story with us. It strengthens the forum when we share with each other.
sistercellophane wrote:
27 Dec 2017, 17:43
Of course there are some good members here and there, but they have been as absent as anyone else. I have been lied to, stolen from, yelled at in RS, gossiped about, refused entry into homes. I have had my deceased sons t-shirts dumped on my front porch when the gal who volunteered to help me make a quilt with them decided she didn’t want to be friends anymore. That was it for me, I mentally and spiritually just could not take it anymore. I reached my breaking point with these people. We are moving out of state in a few years and then I will go back to church. But I don’t know if I can ever open myself up again, it just feels too risky. I don’t even know if I can ever have another calling, my confidence has been shattered.
There is a lot of pain and painful experiences in there you have gone through.

I have not experienced what you have exactly, but perhaps partly, and have come to accept the limitations of the church and the members. I'm truly sorry for your pain.

I've had a different road, my divorce was at the center of my painful road.

Pain is an important teacher. I think we all get exposed to it in different forms. I like what Roy wrote and the references to stages of grief. I don't think we get to choose our pain, only what we do about it and hopefully if we can try to minimize it. For me, it has been a lot of self-reflection and observation on why the pain affects me and why my interactions with people at church matter to me, and how I can reduce dependency on them for approval of myself.

I have lots to learn still. But I enjoy reading and listening to Eckhart Tolle and how he talks of the "pain body" which may be something you might check out, and see how these ideas outside mormonism can be brought back into your faith.

You're not alone...even if you have your own path to journey on. I think God knows you are ready for your journey ahead, wherever you choose to walkabout and reduce suffering any way you can.

Thanks for joining our conversations. I look forward to learning more from your posts.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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