Strolling Toward Church

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Roy
Posts: 5009
Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Strolling Toward Church

Post by Roy » 25 Jun 2017, 15:56

John Bytheway has a little saying in regards to dating. He says,
The wrong one is the right one to lead you to the best one.
There are people that we dated that were wrong for us. There were some that we thought were right at the time and had our heart broken. It can be tempting to think that this was all time wasted in failure but there is another way to look at it.
And if thou shouldst be cast into the pit, or into the hands of murderers, and the sentence of death passed upon thee; if thou be cast into the deep; if the billowing surge conspire against thee; if fierce winds become thine enemy; if the heavens gather blackness, and all the elements combine to hedge up the way; and above all, if the very jaws of hell shall gape open the mouth wide after thee, know thou, my son, that all these things shall give thee experience, and shall be for thy good.
Therefore a period of inactive "sinning" if used as a learning experience could definitely contribute to the positive person that you are today.

(This is somewhat how "the tattooed Mormon" tends to approach these reminder from her past)

However..... this is not how most LDS are comfortable viewing "wrong turns". People have very strong opinions about the LoC. They might view this entire framework as an attempt to justify sin. I would therefore be very careful in sharing.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

DancingCarrot
Posts: 172
Joined: 23 May 2014, 18:24

Re: Strolling Toward Church

Post by DancingCarrot » 26 Jun 2017, 13:49

Thanks for your thoughts, Roy. I agree that there are some commandments and doctrine, such as the LoC, that garner little room outside of the lines. I'm not trying to advocate for more, just acknowledging the small room to begin with. The thought keeps coming to my mind of receiving a witness after a trial of faith. I think the word trial can mean many things, especially in a country that has such an ingrained judiciary such as the US. In a court trial, you are put up for examination to determine your guilt regarding certain charges. I think it's easy for us to think that God is the judge, jury, and executioner that we stand before to prove our worth and in-culpability. However, a trial run of a prototype is used to determine something's capacity, suitability, or qualities (skills). It's used in a long-term situation because there's no use in putting so much effort into something that's not going to be around for a long time or that isn't valuable to you. I think it speaks mostly to the fear and toxic shame based culture/mindset so many of us slip into (because it's insanely easy sometimes) that we constantly have to prove ourselves as good, mistake-prone, and in a process of learning. I think that it's another element of the natural (wo)man that we are counseled to cast off, but you can't cast something off until you learn it's not a part of you.
It does not do to dwell on dreams and forget to live. -Dumbledore

Roll away your stone, I'll roll away mine. Together we can see what we will find. -Mumford & Sons

Roy
Posts: 5009
Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Strolling Toward Church

Post by Roy » 27 Jun 2017, 15:09

The original Hebrew word translated as repent means "to turn". The word in the Greek means a "change of mind". In a very real way repentance means to grow. Curt Sunshine has called this "self-reflective change". It is a positive and (literally) forward looking approach.

This can be contrasted with the negative shame and self punishment that sometimes gets associated with repentance. I understand that sometimes bishops have trouble with individuals that have trouble forgiving themselves (or others) long after the "steps of repentance" have been completed.

Like many things that we discuss here, there is wisdom in balance - not in the extremes.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

Curt Sunshine
Site Admin
Posts: 16069
Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 20:24

Re: Strolling Toward Church

Post by Curt Sunshine » 27 Jun 2017, 15:34

If you are interested, there are 51 posts on my personal blog tagged with "Repentence". The link to all of them is:

http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/sear ... Repentance

If you only want to read a few that focus more specifically on "a fresh view" of repentance, there are 12 at this link:

http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/sear ... sh+view%22

The first one at the second link is my personal favorite. :D
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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mom3
Posts: 3599
Joined: 02 Apr 2011, 14:11

Re: Strolling Toward Church

Post by mom3 » 30 Jun 2017, 11:54

This -
I hold the lessons from my experience closely, and I want to expand in my knowledge of how to be better, how to be more whole. Humbly realizing that I don't have a lot of answers and that there are already principles for us to live by and benefit from, if only we can learn how to interact and utilize them. Many times before have I thought I was utilizing those principles, but now I have a deeper understanding. Something I think comes from a mix of experience, time, and personal development. I may not have a huge testimony and it may not be about a lot of things, but I do want to positively engage in activity, interact with doctrine and how it pertains to us as humans, and help build a community and practice of a faith that continues to quest.
+This
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a place for people with all kinds of testimonies. There are some members of the Church whose testimony is sure and burns brightly within them. Others are still striving to know for themselves. The Church is a home for all to come together, regardless of the depth or the height of our testimony. I know of no sign on the doors of our meetinghouses that says, “Your testimony must be this tall to enter.” President Uchtdorf
= Yes You Can. Say a prayer for your friend, she has room to grow.

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... h?lang=eng
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

DancingCarrot
Posts: 172
Joined: 23 May 2014, 18:24

Re: Strolling Toward Church

Post by DancingCarrot » 01 Jul 2017, 05:04

Ray, thanks for those references. I also really liked the first one in the second link. What a fantastic and motivating principle to experience and learn WITH.

Mom3, thanks for your words as well. It helps to be reminded that testimonies shouldn't be check list items, but experiences that we hold with us.


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It does not do to dwell on dreams and forget to live. -Dumbledore

Roll away your stone, I'll roll away mine. Together we can see what we will find. -Mumford & Sons

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