Should I stay or Should I go now...

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Should I stay or Should I go now...

Post by Monkeymom » 01 Jan 2017, 17:50

Here's the link to the rest of the music by The Clash in case you're needing to finish it in your mind :D

Ok so I suppose I should introduce myself. I've been a lurker for a while and have found this place super helpful. I really appreciate all the different opinions and membership status. About me, I'm a mom of 3 little kiddos the oldest is 8 and she's being baptized this saturday. I personally have always walked the line of heretic it feels like. As a young teenager many things really troubled me. So now after doing years of research on the history and reading all kinds of different sides of the many stories I still don't know exactly what to think. I've really struggled with the way women are viewed in the church, polygamy, all the judgement, the idea of buying salvation, the idea of do enough good things then maybe you'll be worth saving, the temple is a whole other story, the church history lies, tithing, modesty, and the list kind of goes on and on. The kicker is my husband, A True and true Mormon. Never questioned much, never stumbled, never doubted. After doing some research lately he's decided he's done. He's not sure how much longer he's going to go to church, he's not sure if he's going to pay tithing anymore, he's not sure about a lot of things. He does love his calling and he loves serving, he loves the sense of community the church offers and kind of has a built in structure for. I'm still spinning from it all. I don't mind personally if he chooses to step away and put some distance I'm just trying to decided if it would be better for our family for our kiddos to keep going or for all of us to step away.
Here's the reasoning that makes this difficult for me. We live in Utah-all of his family and my family are here. Both of our families have Mormonism going back to the beginning. We would be the first to walk away in both of our families. We would crush them! There are also several cousins on both sides and I think my children would feel very left out and maybe even condemned if they weren't LDS anymore. It may mean that some of the parents wouldn't let their kiddos play with my kiddos anymore! I can see that happening with a few of the families. I'm torn. Our little personal family would be fine one way or the other. My husband and I have great communication and respect for each others choices so there wouldn't be a strain on our marriage or our personal family unit. But it would be like two atom bombs to all the rest of the extended family, especially our parents.
So that's the story. Is it better to stay for my kiddos or better to go, if we go I think we're going to have to move out of the state!
- Let go of judging yourself and you'll finally be free to walk with God. -

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Re: Should I stay or Should I go now...

Post by LookingHard » 01 Jan 2017, 21:28

Welcome! I am always glad to hear someone coming out of the shadows.

As a fellow primate (pardon my light-heartness over our pictures we both have picked) I feel for you.

Count it as a blessing that you and your husband are generally on the same page. That can be really hard if your spouse views the world quite differently.

I don't live in Utah and have only visited for a few days here and there. My parents are converts.

I am big into podcasts and I would highly recommend listening to a few podcasts from the early phase of ... t-archive/ by Kristy Money. She talks quite a bit about talking with family and setting up boundaries.

Also one thing that comes to my mind is if you really must declare your disbelief or can you do like this site and "stay lds", but not the LDS that is "top notch"? In other words, don't be the most active in your ward, but still attend occasionally. It would seem that most families in Utah would be less rejecting of "not as active as would be wished" when compared to "no longer believers." But then again - I am not from Utah.

But I think that advice that is usually given (and you have seen it before if you have lurked much) is to take it slow. Don't make irreversible decisions. Try backing off a bit, don't accept every calling offered, ... And then do that for a while and see how it goes.

Best of luck. I look forward to other feedback and updates on your progress.

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Re: Should I stay or Should I go now...

Post by On Own Now » 01 Jan 2017, 23:45

Hi, Monkeymom, and welcome.

First let me say that I'm sorry you are going through this. It's tough. I wish there were an easy way to proceed, but I know there isn't. No matter where you go in the future, I know that the present kind of sucks. I often wish I'd just wake up one morning and realize that I have been mistaken. That it's all true and I can go back to the old way, but I don't expect that to happen.

There is much to talk about when it comes to talking to family, but I want to offer a bit of encouragement to both give space and to take space. You said:
Monkeymom wrote:We would crush them!
It's a very common concern. We worry that we are going to hurt other people, and in a way, we definitely will. Yet, I think we can hurt ourselves and our families far more if we pretend to be something we are not. I am very careful not to attack the faith of others, but I also can't pretend. I tell the people that need to know that I'm no longer a believer, that I am grateful to have been raised LDS, that I love them and support their faith with all my heart. I reassure that I am trying to live my life the way I was taught and that I'm not running out to make up for years of lost sin-portunities. But back when I tried to keep it all in side, it was a near disaster and I suffered a lot. Outside, I was bright white, but inside I was full of dead-men's bones (see Matt 23:27). IMO, it is expressly unhealthy to live a lie in order to protected the feelings of others. Reverse the roles and ask yourself if you would want your loved ones to suffer mental/emotional/spiritual anguish to keep you from knowing that they no longer believed. What I suggest is for you and your husband to figure out what you do believe and how you want to live your lives (but allow that your point of view will shift over time) and then go to your most loved ones and let them know... give love and ask for their love... give support and ask for their support. Avoid explanations of the 'why' and focus instead on the 'what-now?'. You might be surprised to find that your loved ones will still love you if they don't perceive you as attacking.
"Let us therefore no longer pass judgment on one another, but resolve instead never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of another." --Romans 14:13

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Re: Should I stay or Should I go now...

Post by DarkJedi » 02 Jan 2017, 06:11

Welcome to the forum. I am always sad for and with people who who are struggling because I know so well how very heart wrenching it can be. You've been given some good advice already, and since I am a convert and the only member in my family I can't really address how to deal with that part because I haven't had to. Only you can decide what to do for you and only you and your spouse can decide what to do with about your children regarding the church.

From my own point of view the church is not evil and teaches and does many good things. If you have no problems with your children being taught and involved in the good the church does, it would seem to help smooth things with your families. Many of us here have children who are more orthodox and devout than we are. And, you can be more orthoprax than orthodox and still practice what you do believe. Figuring out what you believe and fitting that into church practice can be the biggest challenge.

Good luck to you. Don't be a stranger.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Re: Should I stay or Should I go now...

Post by Ann » 04 Jan 2017, 19:52

Hi, Monkeymom - Glad you're here and hope it helps.

Thanks for the reminder that things wouldn't be easy if my husband and I were just on the same page. There's always a lot to consider. My two cents is that you could use some more time to work through this privately. Your husband isn't sure about a lot of things and you're still spinning.

Maybe spend some time weighing pros and cons, figuring out what you do believe/what's important in your little family, and - I think this is crucial - just experiencing the mental freedom to explore. If there are things that really grate on you, experiment with tweaking them invidually. Get used to creating boundaries between you and the church instead of - possibly rashly - just placing yourself completely outside. That was especially new for me, I think, since I've been a pretty typical, compliant LDS woman. Same for your family, maybe? See if you can get more comfortable with the idea that you'll reveal to them differences of belief and still get along.

In the end, though, life is so short. In, out, or somewhere between, I hope you live it authentically and still enjoy your extended family.
"Preachers err by trying to talk people into belief; better they reveal the radiance of their own discovery." - Joseph Campbell

"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." - Marcel Proust

"Therefore they said unto him, How were thine eyes opened? He answered and said unto them, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes...." - John 9:10-11

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Re: Should I stay or Should I go now...

Post by Monkeymom » 04 Jan 2017, 20:39

Thanks everyone! Very sound advise. I appreciate all your thoughts and insight.
- Let go of judging yourself and you'll finally be free to walk with God. -

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Re: Should I stay or Should I go now...

Post by Curt Sunshine » 05 Jan 2017, 06:25

I haven't had much time lately for long comments, but I do want to welcome you to our Island of Misfit Toys.

May there be a road. :D
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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Re: Should I stay or Should I go now...

Post by Heber13 » 06 Jan 2017, 14:04

Others have given great advice. Thanks for sharing your story and thanks for expressing your fears about is not an easy thing to go through.

There is a real possibility that relationships may be strained. With families and friends that can happen, and we have to work through and work for the ones we care about. But sometimes you can't avoid it. It would be nice if we could, but in life...sometimes we can't.

If the honest situation leads your family to make changes...well...that may be the path you now need to navigate through, face the fears, face the strained relationships...and grow through handling it as Christ-like as possible. The problem may not be your may be the closed mindedness of others. That doesn't make it right for you to live behind masks and fear to be beholden to their weaknesses of not being able to love you the way church leaders encourage all members to do.

The best out come may be you find your fears were for nothing...and they can deal with it fine.
The worst may be as your fear, but even if that is the have to live your life according to your conscience and let the chips fall.

These are the growing experiences we gain on earth. God allows situations to occur, so it must be OK or he would step in and change it. He won't. will have to have courage and keep love in your hearts and pray for the hearts of others to respect you and love you as you are.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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Re: Should I stay or Should I go now...

Post by Minyan Man » 06 Jan 2017, 21:34

Also, thank you for your introduction. Your story is not unusual. You will be able to get help & give help to others along the way.
Keep coming back. We need to hear your voice.

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