Hello

Public forum, tell us about yourself and what brings you to StayLDS!
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Willhewonder
Posts: 41
Joined: 28 Jul 2016, 08:54

Re: Hello

Post by Willhewonder » 31 Jul 2016, 19:56

Thank you for your welcome and many kind words. I hope to be able to contribute something more than just a lot of questions. I have navigated some challenges successfully, but still have some issues with things that are disturbing and hard to accept. I want to see what you think, but don't want to unload in one big blast - if I even could. Better I think to comment about some of the topics already posted, and then maybe do a post or two of my own.

@Minyan Man,
Until I received a testimony on my own, I had a very, rudimentary faith based on believing in those I trusted. So first it was based on what my parents told me, and what I learned from those they put their trust in. Even though they divorced, they both followed strongly in the church, so I was able to mostly find agreement in their words on the church, if not on their opinions about each other. I went with my mother physically, and also on who was to blame in the divorce, and I gave her primary credence when there seemed to be a difference in church opinions. This was unfortunate in some ways, because as I later found, my father was better grounded in the church, and was not guilty of many of the charges put on him by my mom, even if he was awfully strict!

But I got off topic. I grew up with what Nibley might call a very Primary version of the Gospel. So I believed things like all the native inhabitants of the Americas when Columbus arrived here were descendants of the nephites and lamanites, and other simplistic and just plain wrong explanations like that of scripture, history & biography. Many of these "Primary" versions have not held up to new inputs from both friends and foes of the church.

One of the biggest shocks was around "Mormon Doctrine" by Bruce R. McConkie. My households believed it to be solid church doctrine. We had a first edition, so we were pretty sure the Catholic Church was the Great and Abominable. So when I brought it up later in seminary, only to have it refuted, it shook me a bit when I could only find a later edition. Sure enough, whoops!, it didn't equate the Catholic Church with the Great and Abominable! Well, until I accepted my current belief, I still had it wrong - I believed it was still really so and that they just softened the language so the Catholics wouldn't feel so bad.

So, my life has been a series of these paradigm shifts. So far, I have been able to assimilate them, but I haven't even begun to tackle things like Joseph Smith and Polyandry? And when my son tells me how much of the Book of Mormon and Bible history he doesn't have to believe and still keep his testimony and is very persuasive, I see a deep hole coming up in front of me and wonder how much you can throw out without ditching the whole boat and then might as well become a Unitarian.

Seriously, I don't think I should ditch the boat, but you may get a sense of my unease from these few examples. I do look forward to discussing some of these and like subjects in the forum.

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DarkJedi
Posts: 5018
Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: Hello

Post by DarkJedi » 01 Aug 2016, 10:07

By all means Will poke around the forums and use the search feature - there have been many great discussions in the past. However, don;t let that stop you from asking questions - ask away! I think we mostly enjoy sincere discussion on the topics we all struggle with, and new perspectives come and are welcome.
I believed it was still really so and that they just softened the language so the Catholics wouldn't feel so bad.
I think there are lots of "McConkieites" who would agree with this, I think I may have even heard something similar to it on these forums before. I think BRM was a good and faithful guy who just happened to get so caught up in his own dogmatism and self righteousness that he lost sight of the core of the gospel - until perhaps the very end (his last testimony is certainly very gospel centered). As a former, albeit nominal, Catholic I don't believe them to be the great and abominable. I think that's more of a symbolic term than anything. we recently had a discussion on that topic but I don't have time at the moment to look for it.
And when my son tells me how much of the Book of Mormon and Bible history he doesn't have to believe and still keep his testimony and is very persuasive, I see a deep hole coming up in front of me and wonder how much you can throw out without ditching the whole boat and then might as well become a Unitarian.
Speaking of symbolism.... My way of dealing with the above is to view it all symbolic, allegory, parable, etc. It's not all or nothing. Moses could have parted the Red Sea but Jonah didn't live in a fish's belly - or vice versa. Or, neither could be literal or they both could. However, viewing them all as non-literal allows me to get the same messages without having to believe Moses actually did part the sea or the story of Jonah is true or Nephi cut off Laban's head. It admittedly took me awhile to get there, but it works for me.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Heber13
Site Admin
Posts: 6179
Joined: 22 Apr 2009, 16:37
Location: In the Middle

Re: Hello

Post by Heber13 » 01 Aug 2016, 16:48

Willhewonder wrote: And when my son tells me how much of the Book of Mormon and Bible history he doesn't have to believe and still keep his testimony and is very persuasive, I see a deep hole coming up in front of me and wonder how much you can throw out without ditching the whole boat and then might as well become a Unitarian.
I think it is good advice to go slow, peel things back like an onion one layer at a time.

As I studied things, I would try to stay balanced. I would read things that were anti-mormon, and also read general conference talks and get both sides...see how both are being presented...see how both views have some things that speak to me...and try to decide what to hold on to, and what just doesn't really matter to me.

There are many good things about the church. Try to hold on to those if you can.

I really love how people serve each other in the church. They try to practice the savior's love. There is something to the church that helps people try to be good.

THanks for posting your thoughts as you go.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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