I want to fight the exclusion policy

Public forum, tell us about yourself and what brings you to StayLDS!
earl2bad
Posts: 4
Joined: 25 Jan 2016, 20:43

I want to fight the exclusion policy

Post by earl2bad » 26 Jan 2016, 08:03

I make a case for why in this post:

http://rationalfaiths.com/a-card-carryi ... cy-change/

I'm at a point where I'm determined to not be on the wrong side of history and where my conscience tells me that the policies affecting homosexuals aren't quite right, I feel I must fight. This post made it around the Mormon blogosphere so I know there are people out there who feel the same. I want to speak with them.

User avatar
DarkJedi
Posts: 5857
Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: I want to fight the exclusion policy

Post by DarkJedi » 27 Jan 2016, 04:21

Welcome to the forum. There certainly are people here on the spectrum of disagreeing with the policy although I'm not sure how willing individuals are to "fight." Maybe a clarification on what you mean by that would be helpful, as would a bit more of an introduction so we know where you're coming from.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

amateurparent
Posts: 953
Joined: 19 Jan 2014, 20:43

Re: I want to fight the exclusion policy

Post by amateurparent » 27 Jan 2016, 05:01

Welcome!

It is easier for me to walk away than fight the policy.

Channeling my inner Don Quixote, I could have quite a dramatic moment while fighting LDS wind mills. It would be amusing to watch -- but it would change nothing.
I have no advance degrees in parenting. No national credentials. I am an amateur parent. I read, study, and learn all I can to be the best parent possible. Every time I think I have reached expert status with one child for one stage in their life, something changes and I am back to amateur status again. Now when I really mess up, I just apologize to my child, and explain that I am indeed an amateur .. I'm still learning how to do this right.

User avatar
LookingHard
Posts: 2821
Joined: 20 Oct 2014, 12:11

Re: I want to fight the exclusion policy

Post by LookingHard » 27 Jan 2016, 05:41

Earl, I think I feel somewhat the same as you.

I have spent a bit of time studying the civil rights era and come away with a clear feeling that God was never behind any of the terrible racism, including inside the LDS church. I thought quite a bit on, "what would I have done if I lived back 50 or 60 years ago?" It really bothered me as I feared I might have been a bystander, but I feel the clear morally correct choice would be to fight against it (including in the church).

It took me a while, but I have come to feel that we are in nearly the same situation. And I have resolved to (as you said), "be on the right side of history." I feel if I don't I will have to give an accounting of why I didn't do what was right.

But how to go about doing that is where I still struggle a bit. I can see that to stand up every chance you can and say, "the policy is gay hating - period!" is going to put you "outside the group." I admit that if enough people do this the church MIGHT change based on that pressure - especially if people also stop paying tithing. If a small number do this, it will be a minor speed bump (but pressure outside the church might continue). Some in the church feed on that oppression and just love it.

The other extreme is to do nothing. I can't do that as I feel it is morally wrong.

Somewhere in the middle is where I am at. The church culture only listens to those that are "in", so I am doing my best to be "in" (being good at volunteering, doing my callings, trying to make sure those around me know that I love them), but I do on occasion express that I don't feel the policy change is of God. I am careful not to say, "the leaders are wrong" as that gets you pulled into the bishop's office quickly. I just say how I feel. That is a bit harder for someone to say I am unloyal. I am doing what Elder Nelson said - trying to get my confirmation. But I make it clear I have asked God and what I am left feeling of a broken heart at the pain that this brings to some and the reputation of the church being a Christ-like church.

I hope that helps a bit.

User avatar
Heber13
Posts: 6844
Joined: 22 Apr 2009, 16:37
Location: In the Middle

Re: I want to fight the exclusion policy

Post by Heber13 » 27 Jan 2016, 07:38

amateurparent wrote:Welcome!

It is easier for me to walk away than fight the policy.

Channeling my inner Don Quixote, I could have quite a dramatic moment while fighting LDS wind mills. It would be amusing to watch -- but it would change nothing.
My favorite post of the week!! :thumbup:
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

User avatar
LookingHard
Posts: 2821
Joined: 20 Oct 2014, 12:11

Re: I want to fight the exclusion policy

Post by LookingHard » 27 Jan 2016, 09:00

amateurparent wrote:Welcome!

It is easier for me to walk away than fight the policy.

Channeling my inner Don Quixote, I could have quite a dramatic moment while fighting LDS wind mills. It would be amusing to watch -- but it would change nothing.
I have to admit that I am envious of you being able to back away from your participation. It makes me look at my situation and really ask if I am being chicken and playing the victim. I know I have mentioned how I am trying not to draw (much) attention until my daughter's wedding in just a few months. The end of the summer I have a big high adventure with my youngest son. But then I just noticed the other day that my youngest son will be turning 16 in the fall. Sigh. I guess at some point if I sincerely say, "I have tried all I can and I don't believe" (and I am VERY close to that) I need to grow a pair and let the chips fall. Like that rational faiths post on what to expect in a FC - "it sucks".
Last edited by LookingHard on 28 Jan 2016, 11:22, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
hawkgrrrl
Site Admin
Posts: 3396
Joined: 22 Oct 2008, 16:27

Re: I want to fight the exclusion policy

Post by hawkgrrrl » 27 Jan 2016, 10:40

It is easier for me to walk away than fight the policy.
Sigh. Me too.

User avatar
nibbler
Posts: 3602
Joined: 14 Nov 2013, 07:34
Location: Ten miles west of the exact centre of the universe

Re: I want to fight the exclusion policy

Post by nibbler » 27 Jan 2016, 10:50

The question of the century, how do we fight? Some methods of fighting will likely only cause the "opponent" to raise their defenses and fight back. Also, an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

IMHO the war over same sex relationships has already been won. What we have with this new exclusion policy is another Battle of Palmito Ranch (American Civil War battle after the war was officially over). With each rising generation more and more people are coming down on the side of unity. Some day those rising generations will take our place. The human ship appears to be headed in a better direction.

I remember visiting my grandparents as a youth (like extremely young) and just doing this :roll: :roll: :roll: internally as they went off about other races. I didn't try to fight them, I knew they weren't going to change. I just tried not to internalize the things they said. As they aged their views didn't change much with the rest of the world either.

It kinda sucks waiting several generations for things to pan out but that's how it goes with some people. Just like with the Battle of Palmito Ranch there are real, honest to goodness causalities while we wait. Can the process be sped along? It's hard to tell.

The only way I feel I can "fight" is by trying to raise my children to be more inclusive since I doubt trying to change the grandparents minds is going to be very effective.

Welcome to StayLDS.
The new beatitude: "Good luck..."
- Maynard James Keenan

User avatar
Heber13
Posts: 6844
Joined: 22 Apr 2009, 16:37
Location: In the Middle

Re: I want to fight the exclusion policy

Post by Heber13 » 27 Jan 2016, 11:01

nibbler wrote:The question of the century, how do we fight?
I agree. I also think "When should I fight vs walk away?" I pick my battles. What is the hill I am willing to die on??
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

earl2bad
Posts: 4
Joined: 25 Jan 2016, 20:43

Re: I want to fight the exclusion policy

Post by earl2bad » 27 Jan 2016, 17:24

Walking away is too easy an option. I feel I'd be washing my hands of my Christian duty to my God and my fellow man.

I know minds can be changed. It will require more than words and more than demonstrations.

When I say fight, I mean to say challenge the status quo. It must be done methodically, emphatically, and in large numbers. That's the first objective: gathering dissidents. When that happens, we can talk about initiatives.

Post Reply