A newbie to this particular forum

Public forum, tell us about yourself and what brings you to StayLDS!
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On Own Now
Posts: 1653
Joined: 18 Jan 2012, 12:45

Re: A newbie to this particular forum

Post by On Own Now » 16 Jun 2015, 13:24

Welcome, R4H. I hope you find a home here.
Rob4Hope wrote: I have had spiritual events happen in my life that are unmistakable. I have felt things reach across the veil and touch me in various ways, and I've seen the affects.
I'll tell you right up front that I'm an Atheist. However, I have had spiritual events in my life too and it's part of what makes everything so complicated. Not that I think "maybe God is real" or anything, but more like a gravitation toward the spiritual, even if there is no divine source (my perspective). I was once talking to an Atheist friend about why people believe in miracles (he was dismissive of faith). I mentioned that when I was a missionary in Latin America, that I had experiences that I couldn't explain. He was incredulous and shot back, "C'mon, you don't believe in that stuff!" My point hadn't been about my beliefs, but about why people believe. He was so closed to it that he couldn't allow that people could see things in ways that he couldn't.

Regarding the Fowler's Stages, I personally find limited value there. Others like them, memorize them, make their kids recite them on Family Night, do stenciling of them in their family rooms. I have zero problem with that, and if they work for you, great. I do think there is a tiny bit of danger in trying to label ourselves and others with broad-brush generalizations. Each person is different and has different circumstances and drivers. I've been an Atheist since the Bill Clinton Era, but I still take the sacrament with my right hand and don't drink tea. From a 2012 thread:
On Own Now wrote:I'm not totally bought into the "stages of faith". I find much that is accurate there, but it's an awfully broad brush, and I find a bit of dissonance in the idea of labeling where each of us finds ourselves in the transition. It also leads to a false sense that progression from the stages is both akin to maturity or evolved state, as well as an inevitability. So, it's definitely interesting, and I can see my vague image reflected in it, but it's hardly a roadmap. There are many people who exhibit aspects of several of the stages at once... others who move in the reverse direction, others who skip stages in their entirety, others who never move from one stage to another once they reach adulthood.
"Let us therefore no longer pass judgment on one another, but resolve instead never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of another." --Romans 14:13

Rob4Hope
Posts: 665
Joined: 06 Jan 2015, 07:28

Re: A newbie to this particular forum

Post by Rob4Hope » 16 Jun 2015, 13:33

On Own Now wrote:Welcome, R4H. I hope you find a home here.
Rob4Hope wrote: I have had spiritual events happen in my life that are unmistakable. I have felt things reach across the veil and touch me in various ways, and I've seen the affects.
I'll tell you right up front that I'm an Atheist. However, I have had spiritual events in my life too and it's part of what makes everything so complicated. Not that I think "maybe God is real" or anything, but more like a gravitation toward the spiritual, even if there is no divine source (my perspective). I was once talking to an Atheist friend about why people believe in miracles (he was dismissive of faith). I mentioned that when I was a missionary in Latin America, that I had experiences that I couldn't explain. He was incredulous and shot back, "C'mon, you don't believe in that stuff!" My point hadn't been about my beliefs, but about why people believe. He was so closed to it that he couldn't allow that people could see things in ways that he couldn't.

Regarding the Fowler's Stages, I personally find limited value there. Others like them, memorize them, make their kids recite them on Family Night, do stenciling of them in their family rooms. I have zero problem with that, and if they work for you, great. I do think there is a tiny bit of danger in trying to label ourselves and others with broad-brush generalizations. Each person is different and has different circumstances and drivers. I've been an Atheist since the Bill Clinton Era, but I still take the sacrament with my right hand and don't drink tea. From a 2012 thread:
On Own Now wrote:I'm not totally bought into the "stages of faith". I find much that is accurate there, but it's an awfully broad brush, and I find a bit of dissonance in the idea of labeling where each of us finds ourselves in the transition. It also leads to a false sense that progression from the stages is both akin to maturity or evolved state, as well as an inevitability. So, it's definitely interesting, and I can see my vague image reflected in it, but it's hardly a roadmap. There are many people who exhibit aspects of several of the stages at once... others who move in the reverse direction, others who skip stages in their entirety, others who never move from one stage to another once they reach adulthood.
Hey OON,...thanks for the welcome. And, I have utter respect for your position and what you feel and say here. You will get no judgement from me.

This Fowlers thing?....it doesn't fit for some, and others find it offensive as well. For me, it has helped. It makes sense to me, though I don't pigeon hole myself into a "framework" that is set in stone. All I know is where I am now, what I struggle with now, and where I HOPE to move,...if that is possible at all.

Anyway, part of me understands the atheist position. I have struggled for a while wondering why God, if he exists, seems so aloof. I mean, historically (if we can trust history), JS was so familiar with deceased individuals that he described and compared them to those he associated with in this life. And, all of the sudden such things have vanished away it seems?

Anyway, I'm here. I enjoy learning from other points of view. I try to read really carefully and understand, and that with empathy as well. So, your thoughts, and others, will certainly not be wasted on me.

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Heber13
Posts: 6982
Joined: 22 Apr 2009, 16:37
Location: In the Middle

Re: A newbie to this particular forum

Post by Heber13 » 16 Jun 2015, 13:34

On Own Now wrote:Others like them, memorize them, make their kids recite them on Family Night, do stenciling of them in their family rooms.
That's a broad brush statement to describe Stage 3 Fowlerites who have Stage 2 children! :lol:
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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Holy Cow
Posts: 272
Joined: 10 Nov 2014, 17:07
Location: Las Vegas

Re: A newbie to this particular forum

Post by Holy Cow » 16 Jun 2015, 13:58

Rob4Hope wrote:got me a new avatar. hehehehehehehe
Good, another primate on the board! I believe that makes three of us now. Ha ha! I think evolution may have reversed course... :lol:
My introduction: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6139

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LookingHard
Posts: 2865
Joined: 20 Oct 2014, 12:11

Re: A newbie to this particular forum

Post by LookingHard » 16 Jun 2015, 14:00

hawkgrrrl wrote:From an old post of mine:
Q: How many apologists does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A: Since there is light, we know that the number of apologists involved was sufficient to complete the operation of lightbulb-screwing-in to connect the lightbulb to a power source which could then create the light. Or if there were no apologists involved in the lightbulb-screwing-in, somehow or other it got screwed in. Look, a butterfly!
IOW, we don’t know how, but we know there is light.
I didn't know you were an apologist? :-) Given that "screw" was used 4 times I was expecting a punch line dealing with polygamy and slang reference "a lot of screwing." I guess I need to get my mind out of the gutter - or maybe just visit ldssexuality.com

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LookingHard
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Joined: 20 Oct 2014, 12:11

Re: A newbie to this particular forum

Post by LookingHard » 16 Jun 2015, 14:02

Holy Cow wrote:
Rob4Hope wrote:got me a new avatar. hehehehehehehe
Good, another primate on the board! I believe that makes three of us now. Ha ha! I think evolution may have reversed course... :lol:
I am making direct eye contact with each of you two and if you know what that means in the world of primates - I am exerting my dominance over the two of you. You had better avert your eyes before it gets nasty and the moderators have to get involved. he he he

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Holy Cow
Posts: 272
Joined: 10 Nov 2014, 17:07
Location: Las Vegas

Re: A newbie to this particular forum

Post by Holy Cow » 16 Jun 2015, 14:06

LookingHard wrote:
Holy Cow wrote:
Rob4Hope wrote:got me a new avatar. hehehehehehehe
Good, another primate on the board! I believe that makes three of us now. Ha ha! I think evolution may have reversed course... :lol:
I am making direct eye contact with each of you two and if you know what that means in the world of primates - I am exerting my dominance over the two of you. You had better avert your eyes before it gets nasty and the moderators have to get involved. he he he
Here we go! ;)
84b86192308901159dfc500d5dec3337.jpg
84b86192308901159dfc500d5dec3337.jpg (97.61 KiB) Viewed 769 times
My introduction: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6139

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LookingHard
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Re: A newbie to this particular forum

Post by LookingHard » 16 Jun 2015, 14:23

Don't bring my wife into this! :-)

Rob4Hope
Posts: 665
Joined: 06 Jan 2015, 07:28

Re: A newbie to this particular forum

Post by Rob4Hope » 16 Jun 2015, 14:34

What's my sister doing in this pic!

YIKES!

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