new face

Public forum, tell us about yourself and what brings you to StayLDS!
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DarkJedi
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Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: new face

Post by DarkJedi » 26 May 2015, 13:39

Gingerbat wrote:I really do enjoy being transient, I do. I just fear that with the lifestyle I have I can''t be as active in the church as I feel I should be. I mean I have started doing my personal studies, but I never feel like thats enough. I feel like in order to be a "good" active mormon I need a calling or something. Other than that haha traveling is awesome! I love seeing all the different cultures and stuff. Even in the United States it's diverse.
Perhaps you need to do some separating of the church and the gospel. They are not one in the same. You might also benefit from standing on the desk so to speak (like in Dead Poets Society). Looking at things from a different point of view might help you understand that there are different ways to be a "good active Mormon." Let go of the church-induced guilt - seriously.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Gingerbat
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Joined: 24 May 2015, 11:35

Re: new face

Post by Gingerbat » 26 May 2015, 15:24

There's a difference??? I've always seen it as all being related...

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DarkJedi
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Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: new face

Post by DarkJedi » 26 May 2015, 18:43

Related, yes. The same thing, no.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

Gingerbat
Posts: 12
Joined: 24 May 2015, 11:35

Re: new face

Post by Gingerbat » 26 May 2015, 18:54

Well I knew they weren't the same, but I guess I've always been taught that you can't have one with out the other, probably why I feel like a horrible Mormon

Curt Sunshine
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Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 20:24

Re: new face

Post by Curt Sunshine » 26 May 2015, 19:00

Anyone can live the basic Gospel, if they understand the basic concepts and principles, even if it is in different terms. Look at my signature line.

The Church is a structured organization that helps teach the Gospel and helps people live it. It works for many; it doesn't work for others. I love the Gospel; I love Mormon theology, as I interpret it; I like many aspects of the LDS Church; I don't like some things; the culture is a crap shoot that depends way too much on geography and local leadership.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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Heber13
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Location: In the Middle

Re: new face

Post by Heber13 » 27 May 2015, 11:47

I am trying to think of something in the gospel that REQUIRES the church. Hmmm...struggling to think of some.

Most things seem to be separate to me. Tithing to the LDS church to be a full-tithe payer is the way the church teaches to live the gospel principle of donating and offering and sacrifice. You can donate/offer/sacrifice without paying tithing.

Perhaps there are definitions of gospel and church that need to be clarified.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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DarkJedi
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Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: new face

Post by DarkJedi » 27 May 2015, 12:49

Heber13 wrote:I am trying to think of something in the gospel that REQUIRES the church. Hmmm...struggling to think of some.

Most things seem to be separate to me. Tithing to the LDS church to be a full-tithe payer is the way the church teaches to live the gospel principle of donating and offering and sacrifice. You can donate/offer/sacrifice without paying tithing.

Perhaps there are definitions of gospel and church that need to be clarified.
You could make the argument that the church is needed for ordinances, in which case it's really the priesthood as opposed to the church. So does the church need the priesthood or the priesthood need the church? IMO, the church needs the priesthood, not the other way around, and the gospel exists without either - but depending on your perspective, the gospel might need the priesthood (from my perspective it does not). I have a hard time with thinking of why the gospel needs the church as well. I'm not saying the church is a bad thing, I think it's a very good thing. I dislike it when people refer to the church as the gospel, and under proper circumstances I have been known to make that subtle correction - to which I generally get kind of a blank stare (although there are a surprising number of mature souls who recognize the difference). Although missionaries do encounter people who are unaware of the tenets of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, they are usually spreading the church, not the gospel.

I do like the observation made by some here that the church is a tool for helping people navigate the path (perhaps like a walking stick), but it is not the path. Generally speaking I think the same could be said for all churches.

I think Elder Poelman once tried to make such a distinction between the gospel and the church, and while his edited talk still does make a distinction it is not as clear as the original (both of which can be found using Google). I also think some current general authorities make the distinction subtly, and I don't hear them using church when they should be using gospel.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

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Heber13
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Location: In the Middle

Re: new face

Post by Heber13 » 27 May 2015, 13:16

DarkJedi wrote: IMO, the church needs the priesthood, not the other way around, and the gospel exists without either
I would agree with this too...if we establish the church needs more than the priesthood. Church really needs women to run it, not the priesthood alone, but that is another tangent.

The gospel seems bigger than the church. The church is just the scaffolding, to use that analogy.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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DarkJedi
Posts: 5925
Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: new face

Post by DarkJedi » 27 May 2015, 13:36

Heber13 wrote:The gospel seems bigger than the church. The church is just the scaffolding, to use that analogy.
Not to belabor the point, but I see the gospel as much bigger yet much simpler than the church. Several of the Q15 have made reference to the gospel being so simple that a child can understand it.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

Minyan Man
Posts: 1466
Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 13:40

Re: new face

Post by Minyan Man » 27 May 2015, 14:04

Welcome to our group. Ray said:
If you want to attend, please don't let your drinking keep you away.
This is especially true if you're traveling. I used to like going to new wards (or branches) when I traveled for business.
There is no history with the members there. They usually welcome you with open arms thinking possibly you're move into
the area. The is no pressure, expectations or responsibilities.

There is nothing worse, in my opinion, then sitting in a motel in a strange land, trying to pass the time.
Keep coming back. We'll help you pass the time "on line".

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