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Public forum, tell us about yourself and what brings you to StayLDS!
SquarePeg1971
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Joined: 10 Feb 2015, 14:23

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Post by SquarePeg1971 » 13 Feb 2015, 13:59

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Last edited by SquarePeg1971 on 21 Feb 2016, 13:16, edited 2 times in total.

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hawkgrrrl
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Re: Hello from California

Post by hawkgrrrl » 13 Feb 2015, 14:54

Welcome to the site! I remember thinking when I was fairly young that anything my ancestors (in my case, just my parents) sacrificed so much for deserved some loyalty and respect. That doesn't overcome the issues you described that many of us here also consider, but it's a thought I was reminded of when I read your intro. In any case, you sound like a great person to be in a ward with!

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LookingHard
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Re: Hello from California

Post by LookingHard » 13 Feb 2015, 15:30

Welcome squarepeg. Many here feel your pain.

I have worked though many issues with history and leaders. It almost always comes down to lowering my expectations - as in these are just people and most are just doing their best. But compared to my TBM'ish days (I can't say I never had some thoughts in the back of my head) I had to lower my expectations of leaders - dramatically! And for much of it I actually have been able in my heart to say that I forgive them and I can stay in the church (maybe not fully comfortable). But my biggest issue that I can't seem to get any peace on is the irritation on how much (especially upper) leadership pounds the "follow the prophet" and "we will not, we can not lead you astray" when the only way I can get past the past is to admit they can - and not just can, but DO fail.

I want to give a sacrament meeting talk and say:
There is a quote that "Catholics have a doctrine that the pope is infallible, but Catholic's don't believe it. Mormons have a doctrine that the prophet is fallible, but Mormon's don't believe it." I have to remind myself that as I listen to conference that it is quite possible that incorrect items, or at least things that are incorrect for me and my situation, are given over the pulpit. It is my moral duty to take what I hear to the Lord and get a confirmation on it or I am relying on the 'weak arm of flesh'"
How do you think that talk would go over? I might not have to talk again for a realllllly long time :)

Not sure what to tell you, but I do envy that you have your spouse to converse with. That helps, but I think if my spouse was were I was - I think we would at least be taking a break from church. The biggest issue would be if any of my kids decided to get married. I might still go once a month to fill in the "active attendance" checkbox.

SquarePeg1971
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Joined: 10 Feb 2015, 14:23

Re: Hello from California

Post by SquarePeg1971 » 13 Feb 2015, 16:35

There is a quote that "Catholics have a doctrine that the pope is infallible, but Catholic's don't believe it. Mormons have a doctrine that the prophet is fallible, but Mormon's don't believe it." I have to remind myself that as I listen to conference that it is quite possible that incorrect items, or at least things that are incorrect for me and my situation, are given over the pulpit. It is my moral duty to take what I hear to the Lord and get a confirmation on it or I am relying on the 'weak arm of flesh'"
I have heard that quote before, and believe it to be true. That might be a great strategy for getting out of specking in SM- ha ha! One of my difficulties is that my peer group are the stalwarts of the ward and stake. Whenever I point out a different perspective (VERY rarely--as I'm pretty deep undercover) the reaction is one of dismay and sugary sweet regurgitated response, ie, "which way do you face?" There are so many things that are very popular to SAY in the church, but at the same time very UNPOPULAR to do: Put family first, pray to receive your own confirmation, it's okay to doubt, take responsibility for your own spirituality, etc... I have many non-LDS friends, but I do still value the friendships of long time member friends--my doubts would cost me those relationships I'm sure...which is terribly sad.

We have several young couples in the ward who have recently resigned their membership, so there's a tremor running through the ward right now and I don't want be the one to tip the scale to full blown earthquake. Our Bishop is really fantastic and humble. I do love SM and renewing my baptismal covenants, and an additional hour isn't too bad. I usually choose either RS or SS. I'm a 2 hour girl :)

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hawkgrrrl
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Re: Hello from California

Post by hawkgrrrl » 13 Feb 2015, 16:45

I'm a 2 hour girl, too, even though I am physically there for all three. I can't do more than 2 mentally. I swear I try. Some people leave. Other people stay and leave mentally.

SquarePeg1971
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Joined: 10 Feb 2015, 14:23

Re: Hello from California

Post by SquarePeg1971 » 13 Feb 2015, 16:48

hawkgrrrl wrote:I'm a 2 hour girl, too, even though I am physically there for all three. I can't do more than 2 mentally. I swear I try. Some people leave. Other people stay and leave mentally.
This cracks me up...seriously! How many of "us" are in every ward? I'm so glad to know I'm not alone--many thanks!

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DarkJedi
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Re: Hello from California

Post by DarkJedi » 13 Feb 2015, 18:52

Welcome. You sound like a great person and you are lucky to have support from your spouse - a luxury many of us lack.

I found that separating the gospel from the church was very helpful. I can live and believe basic gospel principles and ignore much of the other "stuff" added by the church.

I'm a two hour guy. I think there might be some support for two hours in the upper echelons, but I think it may take a revelation to a future president for it to become reality. Other than SM, I don't really care what the hours are.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

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Heber13
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Location: In the Middle

Re: Hello from California

Post by Heber13 » 13 Feb 2015, 19:12

Welcome to the forum!! I have an issue with polygamy too. Its an odd part of our past, and when I dig into it, it creates problems on what things prophets teach. It starts to unravel some things. I don't like it.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

Ann
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Re: Hello from California

Post by Ann » 14 Feb 2015, 01:02

SquarePeg1971 wrote: One of my difficulties is that my peer group are the stalwarts of the ward and stake. Whenever I point out a different perspective (VERY rarely--as I'm pretty deep undercover) the reaction is one of dismay and sugary sweet regurgitated response, ie, "which way do you face?" There are so many things that are very popular to SAY in the church, but at the same time very UNPOPULAR to do: Put family first, pray to receive your own confirmation, it's okay to doubt, take responsibility for your own spirituality, etc... I have many non-LDS friends, but I do still value the friendships of long time member friends--my doubts would cost me those relationships I'm sure...which is terribly sad.
Hi, SquarePeg - I'm glad you're here, and boy, do I identify with your situation. When I stop and count noses here in my early 50's, almost all of my friends are active LDS women. The cost of leaving, and even the cost of staying more honestly could be very high. We've shared a lot of honest talks over the years, and it just won't work for me to pretend from here on out. There are better and worse ways to be authentic, and people here have lots of good advice about that.

You're super-lucky to be on the same page with your husband, but you already know that.

It's been devoting more time and emotional "resources" to my non-LDS friends, too. Not really because I picture myself leaving the church, but because I used to ignore my impulses to spend time with them and serve them because I was too busy....with church work! :crazy:
"Preachers err by trying to talk people into belief; better they reveal the radiance of their own discovery." - Joseph Campbell

"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." - Marcel Proust

"Therefore they said unto him, How were thine eyes opened? He answered and said unto them, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes...." - John 9:10-11

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nibbler
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Re: Hello from California

Post by nibbler » 14 Feb 2015, 08:11

SquarePeg1971 wrote:I am having a hard time with the constant "follow the prophet" we (GA's) WILL NEVER lead you astray...so "stay in the boat," when there is ample evidence tot the contrary.
Yeah, that one bothers me quite a bit. Probably because I've been hearing it quite a bit locally ever since conference. Some days it touches a nerve, some days it makes me a little sad.
SquarePeg1971 wrote:
hawkgrrrl wrote:I'm a 2 hour girl, too, even though I am physically there for all three. I can't do more than 2 mentally. I swear I try. Some people leave. Other people stay and leave mentally.
This cracks me up...seriously! How many of "us" are in every ward? I'm so glad to know I'm not alone--many thanks!
I'm guessing that many, many people are in this camp. I used to have a calling that netted me some face time with the BP. We'd talk about general things from time to time and come to find out that he too was a proponent of 2 hour church. Then I said:

Well, you're the BP... :twisted:

The interesting thing is that he said the church had piloted a 2 hour block in a few areas. In researching this online I found a few mentions that Elder Holland piloted 2 hour church in Chile around 2008 or so. Of course people loved it ;) I think the takeaway was that Elder Holland was convinced but some of the other brethren weren't as enthused. Of course this is all hearsay.

A guy can dream. Of course nothing can stop people from being ahead of the curve on this. You want 2 hour church, make church 2 hours. :angel:

Welcome to StayLDS.
The new beatitude: "Good luck..."
- Maynard James Keenan

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