Something happened

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Jazernorth
Posts: 78
Joined: 05 Sep 2013, 06:15

Re: Something happened

Post by Jazernorth » 05 Sep 2013, 20:38

DarkJedi wrote:That was over 10 years ago, and I haven't gotten over that yet - but I have learned to cope without relying on those feelings. I still don't know how to discern spiritual promptings from just plain emotions and I don't know that I will in this lifetime. The old "if it's good then it's OK" advice doesn't work - I was doing good things and got a bad result.
How do you deal with Sunday School and Priesthood (or RS)? I get very uncomfortable being there because I don't "feel" the spirit. To me, it is just another class, the same as any school class.
Heber13 wrote:What are your thoughts on the times when Joseph Smith had feelings and they were wrong? If he was pretty close to God and that happened, surely we would also have that happen to us. How does that make sense to you?
I guess I missed this part in church.
hawkgrrrl wrote:I have never found feelings and emotion to be very reliable for me. Others have better luck with it. I do tend to be an instinctive decision maker, but I just make connections quickly and come to conclusions - I don't do it based on feelings. In fact, I often have to remember to ask myself how I feel about something because logic has always been my go to, and it's not fallible either. What can I say? Raised on Star Trek, I guess. A little bit Kirk and a whole lot Spock.
I understand that. Thanks!

Just reading the comments so far, is making me feel a tidbit better. I find myself listening to a lot of talk radio (yes, I'm a talk junkie), and some of that is the local religious talk radio. There are many times that what they are saying makes a whole lot more sense than things I learned in church. I have always been OK with that because even when I was younger I knew that other people have good answers. My parents listened to Zig Zigglar. Anyone have suggestions on Sunday School and Priesthood? I can barely make it through Sacrament, but that has always been the case since I was still wearing diapers.

I also refuse to teach any class or give talks in church. I have no problem saying no. My problem is that when asked this goes through my head:
Do I believe what I would be teaching?
No. (generally because I don't know what is in the lessons and I don't want to be caught off guard).
Should I fake it and teach the class?
No.
Why?
Because my integrity says I do not teach anything I don't believe.

Once that goes through my head, I say no to any teaching request.

I sat through primary and whatever the class part is called with CTR-4 and played games because I didn't believe what was being taught and they "really" needed a teacher. So I sat in there and played games the whole time.

The last talk I gave in church was 1.25 minutes long (OK, I don't know the exact time, but it was short). I got up, introduced myself, talked about guns and computers (subjects I know very well), then sat down. To be fair though, I warned the person who asked me to talk that I won't talk on a subject I don't know anything about. They said "learn". I said - OK, you asked for it. The bishopric member had to fill up 20 minutes of time. I'm not sure if he was mad or not, but they never asked me again.
Don't get me wrong here, I don't feel bad or regret saying no to anything. What I wonder and have a hard time with is the through process, then wondering afterwards why do I not believe it and if I don't believe it why do I keep coming back to church. I know it stems back to the experience with CPS and the feelings, so I that is where I started with this discussion. I also continue because statistically children raised in a good church environment become better adjusted and good adults, so I force myself for my child. I would like to get back to the way I was, before then. Not the blind or just following the feelings person, but the person who mostly liked to attend church...... I think, or at least that makes the most sense to me... I dunno, I'm still on the fence on that one I guess.

Sorry for the ramblings there at the end. Like I said in my first post, I ain't a word smith.
Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness!
I will fight for all of them, will you join me?
http://www.jaynorth.net

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Something happened

Post by Curt Sunshine » 05 Sep 2013, 22:49

I have felt like a bit of an alien at church pretty much my entire life. Frankly, that helps, since I don't expect or really want to feel like everyone else. I've been different so long I don't know what I'd do if I suddenly was normal. :D
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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DarkJedi
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Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: Something happened

Post by DarkJedi » 06 Sep 2013, 04:49

Hi Jazernorth. I do relate to your feelings about speaking & teaching in church. Before I stopped going to church I asked to be released from my GD teaching position because I felt I couldn't teach that which I didn't believe. I also think SS & PH meetings are more difficult than SM because there's so much more input from class members who like to repeat non-doctrine as doctrine. I'm sorry that I didn't make it clear to you that I haven't been to church in over 10 years, but I am on the verge of returning. My plan upon return (as outlined in my own introduction) is to attend only SM and to not accept any calling or invitation or pray or speak - like you, I have no problem saying no. While being on this site has given me some encouragement about the possibility of returning to SS & PH at some point in the future, I'm not sure how long that process may take and it's possible it may not happen at all. If you don't feel good about going to SS or PH, don't go. While my plan is to actually leave the building and go home, in my experience there are plenty of skippers in the foyers or sitting in cars in the parking lot if you feel you must stay.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Jazernorth
Posts: 78
Joined: 05 Sep 2013, 06:15

Re: Something happened

Post by Jazernorth » 06 Sep 2013, 05:09

DarkJedi wrote:While my plan is to actually leave the building and go home, in my experience there are plenty of skippers in the foyers or sitting in cars in the parking lot if you feel you must stay.
I used to hang out in my truck, but that was when it took 30 minutes to drive to church and we all went together in the same car. Now I'm about 5 minutes away, so I go home.
Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness!
I will fight for all of them, will you join me?
http://www.jaynorth.net

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Heber13
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Re: Something happened

Post by Heber13 » 06 Sep 2013, 11:06

Heber13 wrote:
What are your thoughts on the times when Joseph Smith had feelings and they were wrong? If he was pretty close to God and that happened, surely we would also have that happen to us. How does that make sense to you?
Jazernorth wrote:I guess I missed this part in church.
DarkJedi wrote:I hadn't really considered this before, Heber. Can you give us some examples? This intrigues me.
If you read Rough Stone Rolling, you can see several examples where Joseph was following his feelings only to find out they didn't always work out. The Kirtland Bank, running for government offices, calling certain holy men to high church offices to have them betray him, giving Martin Harris the draft of the 116 pages of the Book of Mormon, skeletons of white nephites, mummy scrolls.

He was a rough stone rolling, being buffeted as he went for his imperfections. He maintained the faith, despite setbacks and things he thought were right but turned out wrong. This can be an example to us how the Lord can work in our lives...or sometimes, not work in our lives.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

arik
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Joined: 07 Jun 2013, 17:10

Re: Something happened

Post by arik » 07 Sep 2013, 16:26

One of the things that is drawing me more and more to this Church is the idea that we are supposed to use our minds as well as our feelings. Following your feelings will often cause you to do things your mind and all reason tell you is wrong. That's a situation where prayer seems to come in handy for focusing thoughts and bringing feelings in line. Doesn't always work, but it can help.

That said, I believe there is a lesson to be learned from your experience: DON'T TRUST GOVERNMENT!

The idea of CPS sounds pretty good, and the concept of saving children who are in harm's way is an attractive one, but the reality tends to become a large, corrupt government organization metastasizing into ever corner of your life. The abuses we've had here in my area in Ohio have been disgusting. They will destroy multiple lives and families to save that theoretical "one child." I don't condone or support child abuse, but in many cases, the governemnt organizations that are supposed to be helping are just as abusive as the people they are supposed to be there to stop. A family member abusing a child is a crime. A government bureaucracy abusing hundreds of children to stop that one family member is an outrage.

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