Hello, I'm new here but hope to be a regular participant

Public forum, tell us about yourself and what brings you to StayLDS!
Rsbenson
Posts: 18
Joined: 17 Oct 2014, 00:52

Re: Hello, I'm new here but hope to be a regular participant

Post by Rsbenson » 01 Nov 2014, 18:56

Dark Jedi:

You said:
Trying to think back, why did I want to return? I don't know. It was certainly partly because of my family. It was partly because I had come to a place where I felt I had gained a new understanding of the Gospel/Church relationship and actually believed in God (just not in the same way I perceive most Mormons do). It was partly because I did have some yearning for social interaction with people I know and like.
Let's take this piece by piece. "Trying to think back, why did I want to return? I don't know." (silence) You don't know?? Let me suggest several reasons why you might leave it again. To do that, I'll use subquotes from your main quote.

1. " It was certainly partly because of my family."

Well, it's true that church activity (any church, for that matter) can be strengthening to a family, but it's really not a sufficient reason to join a church, especially, the true one. The Lord expects a lot of those people.

2. "I had come to a place where I felt I had gained a new understanding of the Gospel/Church relationship."

As you know, in the church we have an adult Sunday school called Gospel Doctrine. You will note that it wasn't named Church Doctrine but GOSPEL Doctrine. If you remember, some decades ago, the Church sent out a monthly newsletter, to the unit leaders, called the Church Bulletin. It contained information for the units and every once in a while instructions on changes in the Church Handbook. Within time the resultant Handbook wouldn't look much like the original handbook anymore. I' m not putting that down. Procedures do change and the Church tries to accommodate them. As a result, CHURCH doctrine can change with the wind direction. Than the leaders started to base the things they said, in the handbook, according to gospel doctrine and they result was truly amazing. Since then there have been very much fewer changes. We can consider Gospel doctrine as Gibraltar doctrine. It changes for nothing!
I'm not terribly concerned what the Church doctrine is. But I am concerned about understanding what Gospel doctrine is. If the Church says that THIS is doctrine and I say no, THAT is doctrine and the Church says that I must not say THAT in a Church setting, then I won't. But in the next breath I would ask them if they can show me where, they think, I have misunderstood the scriptures. If they can, that's great. If they can't, I still won't say THAT in a Church setting, but I don't think I would ever be able to believe it.
So, what about the truthfulness of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. It hasn't even been phased. There is one doctrine taught in the scriptures that I, probably, depend on more than anything else. I'll call it the doctrine of priesthood keys. There are 15 men in the Church that hold all of them and one of those men is the reason the others even have them. Now I think I've said that right. Look that up for sure. I just ran into a lazy streak. Dark Jedi! If God has told you nothing, then that is exactly what you know----Nothing! And the Church won't be able to help to much. How do I know about the keys? God told me. And He also told me they are vitally important.

To me, leaving the Church would be insane.

3.(I)" actually believed in God (just not in the same way I perceive most Mormons do)."

Be careful. So far, you haven't said anything about what God HAS told you let alone what He's told you about what most Mormons believe about God.

4. " It was partly because I did have some yearning for social interaction with people I know and like."

I, also, know and like the people of my unit but when it comes to a knowledge and understanding of gospel doctrine, I don't think they know what they are talking about. I could walk out and never come back and, ALMOST, never miss them. But many, many of them do know the important stuff - how to live it. That I would miss. They are a strength to me. God knows that and He knows that I know that.

The leaders could throw me out of the Church if they wanted to. They have the authourity. But on my own, I hang on for dear life. I know to much to leave.
Dark Jedi, may God be with you.

User avatar
DarkJedi
Posts: 6746
Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: Hello, I'm new here but hope to be a regular participant

Post by DarkJedi » 01 Nov 2014, 19:40

Rsbenson wrote:Dark Jedi:

You said:
Trying to think back, why did I want to return? I don't know. It was certainly partly because of my family. It was partly because I had come to a place where I felt I had gained a new understanding of the Gospel/Church relationship and actually believed in God (just not in the same way I perceive most Mormons do). It was partly because I did have some yearning for social interaction with people I know and like.
Let's take this piece by piece. "Trying to think back, why did I want to return? I don't know." (silence) You don't know?? Let me suggest several reasons why you might leave it again. To do that, I'll use subquotes from your main quote.

1. " It was certainly partly because of my family."

Well, it's true that church activity (any church, for that matter) can be strengthening to a family, but it's really not a sufficient reason to join a church, especially, the true one. The Lord expects a lot of those people.

2. "I had come to a place where I felt I had gained a new understanding of the Gospel/Church relationship."

As you know, in the church we have an adult Sunday school called Gospel Doctrine. You will note that it wasn't named Church Doctrine but GOSPEL Doctrine. If you remember, some decades ago, the Church sent out a monthly newsletter, to the unit leaders, called the Church Bulletin. It contained information for the units and every once in a while instructions on changes in the Church Handbook. Within time the resultant Handbook wouldn't look much like the original handbook anymore. I' m not putting that down. Procedures do change and the Church tries to accommodate them. As a result, CHURCH doctrine can change with the wind direction. Than the leaders started to base the things they said, in the handbook, according to gospel doctrine and they result was truly amazing. Since then there have been very much fewer changes. We can consider Gospel doctrine as Gibraltar doctrine. It changes for nothing!
I'm not terribly concerned what the Church doctrine is. But I am concerned about understanding what Gospel doctrine is. If the Church says that THIS is doctrine and I say no, THAT is doctrine and the Church says that I must not say THAT in a Church setting, then I won't. But in the next breath I would ask them if they can show me where, they think, I have misunderstood the scriptures. If they can, that's great. If they can't, I still won't say THAT in a Church setting, but I don't think I would ever be able to believe it.
So, what about the truthfulness of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. It hasn't even been phased. There is one doctrine taught in the scriptures that I, probably, depend on more than anything else. I'll call it the doctrine of priesthood keys. There are 15 men in the Church that hold all of them and one of those men is the reason the others even have them. Now I think I've said that right. Look that up for sure. I just ran into a lazy streak. Dark Jedi! If God has told you nothing, then that is exactly what you know----Nothing! And the Church won't be able to help to much. How do I know about the keys? God told me. And He also told me they are vitally important.

To me, leaving the Church would be insane.

3.(I)" actually believed in God (just not in the same way I perceive most Mormons do)."

Be careful. So far, you haven't said anything about what God HAS told you let alone what He's told you about what most Mormons believe about God.

4. " It was partly because I did have some yearning for social interaction with people I know and like."

I, also, know and like the people of my unit but when it comes to a knowledge and understanding of gospel doctrine, I don't think they know what they are talking about. I could walk out and never come back and, ALMOST, never miss them. But many, many of them do know the important stuff - how to live it. That I would miss. They are a strength to me. God knows that and He knows that I know that.

The leaders could throw me out of the Church if they wanted to. They have the authourity. But on my own, I hang on for dear life. I know to much to leave.
Dark Jedi, may God be with you.
Interesting. You ask me a simple question which I honestly and authentically answer to the best of my recollection. While I do recall my feelings of the last 10 years and those of the last two especially, it is sometimes hard to put those feelings into words.

Nevertheless you then decide that apparently my answer doesn't suit you and feel it necessary to call me to repentance? A. That doesn't fly here, and were I offended by such things I'd be offended. B. You are in no position to call me to repentance - sorry, that's between me and God (whatever your view of God is).

I will respond to only one point, what God told me. Through the Holy Ghost, I do believe that Jesus is the Christ - a testimony that can only come through the Holy Ghost. What He tells others is generally none of my business, that's between them and Him. He hasn't told me anything about what others believe - but they tell me all the time (just like you just did).

If you'd like to know more about what I believe, you could start here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1w73 ... sp=sharing. It's the talk I gave last Sunday. I'll let guess what the stake president (who holds keys, if that makes any difference) said immediately following this talk - and while most who know me in real life or here won't be surprised, I think you might be were I to tell you what he said.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

Post Reply