Goodness will Prevail

Public forum, tell us about yourself and what brings you to StayLDS!
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richalger
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Goodness will Prevail

Post by richalger » 15 Sep 2011, 10:49

I am an active LDS member. I have had questions about hard history and doctrines of the church. I feel like I have come to a balance with these issues.

Here is a longer description of my journey.
http://richalger.blogspot.com/search/la ... %20history

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SilentDawning
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Re: Goodness will Prevail

Post by SilentDawning » 15 Sep 2011, 17:57

Rich -- thanks for the intro and the well-written statement of how you got to the point you're currently at.

I keep hearing about Rough Stone Rolling, and its balanced approach to the history, but I haven't the guts to read it as I didn't come here with questions about the history, and would rather not disturb that aspect of my testimony.

You said a few things though, I wanted to respond to....
I believe truth will prevail. Randy quoted J. Reuben Clark in one of his emails, "If we have the truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not the truth, it ought to be harmed." Truth will prevail in more than in the factual “what is real” questions.
I didn't really see how this counteracted or helped you deal with the hard history you were talking about ....it's more of a statement of faith that the things you already believe will prevail, and that it won't be dented even by questioning. That was the message I got -- not how you managed to get past the tough history.

I do agree that if you look at what the Church DOES today, in general, there's a lot of good, and its one reason I stick around. In fact, that's how I personally deal with the history -- whatever happened in the past, one can take part in the good people who come together in the Church, and let the opportunities for good works develop your character -- while setting the right boundaries.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"Stage 5 is where you no longer believe the gospel as its literally or traditionally taught. Nonetheless, you find your own way to be active and at peace within it". -- SD

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

My introduction: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1576

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Orson
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Re: Goodness will Prevail

Post by Orson » 15 Sep 2011, 19:03

Welcome Rich! I enjoyed reading on your blog, and look forward to hearing more from you.
My avatar - both physical and spiritual.

I first found faith, and thought I had all truth. I then discovered doubt, and claimed a more accurate truth. Now I’ve greeted paradox and a deeper truth than I have ever known.

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hawkgrrrl
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Re: Goodness will Prevail

Post by hawkgrrrl » 15 Sep 2011, 22:45

Welcome, Rich. Nice to see you here!

I can relate to your personal blog - your optimism & tone, and your pragmatism also. Your comments on the site will doubtless be a welcome addition. I too see our history and even some of our present culture as troubling and flawed, but every culture has flaws, and if we become mindful of the problems, deliberate in our values & assumptions, we can still have personal growth. In time, we can become insulated from what is icky and uplifted by what is positive. Many arrive here at StayLDS, just discovering the ickiness and are dismayed at how much it is touching them. It's helpful to have mentors here who've been there, who are neither afraid of the ickiness nor in denial that it exists.

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Heber13
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Re: Goodness will Prevail

Post by Heber13 » 16 Sep 2011, 05:45

Welcome Rich. I also enjoyed your writing and sincere tone.

All I have to say for now is "paradox" - it is something that can teach us if we let it, but it can be scary to face when we go to church and feel we should know all things with certainty and doubt not. Paradox is ok.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Goodness will Prevail

Post by Curt Sunshine » 16 Sep 2011, 14:28

Welcome, friend.

Since I've read your blog regularly for a long time and you've read mine just as long, I'm curious how you ended up here - if it was something I said at some point or if it was totally independent of me.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

Featherina

Re: Goodness will Prevail

Post by Featherina » 16 Sep 2011, 15:01

Welcome, Rich!

I especially like this part that you wrote in your blog...
We eventually get what we want. The trick is to choose that which will bring lasting happiness instead of only immediate pleasure. As any person truly seeks to find and follow truth, truth is inevitable to come and that truth will make us into what only God can imagine.
This is such a needed reminder for me in my life now. Thanks.

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Brian Johnston
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Re: Goodness will Prevail

Post by Brian Johnston » 19 Sep 2011, 08:18

Hey Rich,

Real excited to have you here with us! Welcome!
AKA Valoel
"It's strange to be here. The mystery never leaves you alone." -John O'Donohue, Anam Cara, speaking of experiencing life.

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richalger
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Re: Goodness will Prevail

Post by richalger » 30 Sep 2011, 00:38

SilentDawning wrote: You said a few things though, I wanted to respond to....
I believe truth will prevail. Randy quoted J. Reuben Clark in one of his emails, "If we have the truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not the truth, it ought to be harmed." Truth will prevail in more than in the factual “what is real” questions.
I didn't really see how this counteracted or helped you deal with the hard history you were talking about ....it's more of a statement of faith that the things you already believe will prevail, and that it won't be dented even by questioning. That was the message I got -- not how you managed to get past the tough history.
I guess it is more a statement of faith. How did I get past the tough history? As I have looked at the whole body of my experience with the church, I come up with a huge positive balance. The same goes for our history on its own. There are warts, but there is incredible beauty, sacrifice, love and Goodness. That probably sums up in the smallest nutshell how I have processed our messy history.

Rough Stone Rolling has so much good in it. There are parts that were disturbing. From the outset Bushman says that he is a faithful Mormon. He also says that he was writing the book from a scholar's tone, recognizing his bias for the church. It wasn't until long after I read it that I started to understand what that meant. He was trying to preserve credibility among historians. He was not just writing for a Mormon audience.

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richalger
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Re: Goodness will Prevail

Post by richalger » 30 Sep 2011, 00:47

Heber13 wrote:All I have to say for now is "paradox" - it is something that can teach us if we let it, but it can be scary to face when we go to church and feel we should know all things with certainty and doubt not. Paradox is ok.
Yeah, just thinking about the pardox that I have come across in my adventures is making me smile. It is incredible. I truly see through a glass darkly. The best I am hoping for is some strands of truth and goodness. And I will never part with them! Until and unless I see their folly. lol.

It truly seems like the rock foundation I had evaporated. But somehow I feel solid again. Probably a few months ago, I decided to stop waiting for complete and ultimate answers. I am becoming satisfied with the practical answers. Do I believe God lives? yes. Is Jesus the Son of God and my Savior? yes. Was Joseph one of His prophets? yes. Is TCoJCoLDS where God wants me? a resounding yes!

It is the practical answers that seem to have most solace for me. How is the church blessing the lives of my family and I? And then I start counting them.

Paradox indeed.

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