What does the Book of Mormon actually teach?

Public forum to discuss questions about Mormon history and doctrine.
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rrosskopf
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Re: What does the Book of Mormon actually teach?

Post by rrosskopf » 15 Apr 2019, 08:19

Curt Sunshine wrote:
13 Apr 2019, 06:19
"Does the gift of God seem too meager for you?"
Consider, please, how condescending and condemning that question sounds to someone who has been uber faithful in the past and now is struggling.
I guess it could be taken that way. Some people would just realize that it is a gift from God and that they should look it from that perspective. There is no need to overcomplicate things. We don't need to know all things from the beginning. We don't need a perfect church. We don't need perfect prophets. We do need to know the consequences of our actions. We can learn those the hard way, or the easy way.

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DarkJedi
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Re: What does the Book of Mormon actually teach?

Post by DarkJedi » 15 Apr 2019, 08:32

rrosskopf wrote:
15 Apr 2019, 07:24
grobert93 wrote:
13 Apr 2019, 07:14

The church isn't for everyone. The church Jesus established is not equal to the LDS church today. It may have the priesthood and teach the gospel and perform the ordinances, but as former President Utchdorf himself said in conference, the restoration of the gospel is still happening. We cannot expect the church to satisfy our needs. We cannot expect the church to "feed us until we are full".
Is there any man or women alive that wouldn't benefit from repentance? Or having the Holy Ghost as a constant companion?
We do not have a monopoly on repentance or the Holy Ghost (and you can spare me the lecture on the difference in the GotHG and the Holy Ghost - I think we mostly have that wrong).
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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grobert93
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Re: What does the Book of Mormon actually teach?

Post by grobert93 » 15 Apr 2019, 08:50

rrosskopf wrote:
15 Apr 2019, 07:24
grobert93 wrote:
13 Apr 2019, 07:14

The church isn't for everyone. The church Jesus established is not equal to the LDS church today. It may have the priesthood and teach the gospel and perform the ordinances, but as former President Utchdorf himself said in conference, the restoration of the gospel is still happening. We cannot expect the church to satisfy our needs. We cannot expect the church to "feed us until we are full".
Is there any man or women alive that wouldn't benefit from repentance? Or having the Holy Ghost as a constant companion?
Repentance is not a unique doctrine in the LDS church, or even Christianity. The concept of forgiveness, of letting go of mistakes, of healing is a very human recognized trait and power. We emphasize it in our church because it is a key element in the progress toward receiving the ordinances that the church provides to faithful members. Of course all mankind would benefit from the holy ghost, the priesthood, the blessings from receiving their endowment, serving a mission, and so many other things. I am not denying the Church provides these opportunities for us to grow. But the church not does exclusively provide these opportunities, nor teach these principles. Likewise in context of my original post, the church itself I believe is open for forgiveness as well. The church has made mistakes in the past, and one way to help it to grow is to forgive.

Minyan Man
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Re: What does the Book of Mormon actually teach?

Post by Minyan Man » 15 Apr 2019, 09:09

rrosskopf, most of us on this forum write an Introduction that describes: Who we are, why we joined the site & what we expect to get out from
our experience here. I looked & couldn't find one for you. It would be very helpful if you could do that.

For what it's worth. And it's only a suggestion.

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DarkJedi
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Re: What does the Book of Mormon actually teach?

Post by DarkJedi » 15 Apr 2019, 09:17

Minyan Man wrote:
15 Apr 2019, 09:09
rrosskopf, most of us on this forum write an Introduction that describes: Who we are, why we joined the site & what we expect to get out from
our experience here. I looked & couldn't find one for you. It would be very helpful if you could do that.

For what it's worth. And it's only a suggestion.
But a very good suggestion, MM. It is often helpful for others to know where one is coming from, point of view, etc. Thanks for making the suggestion.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

grobert93
Posts: 70
Joined: 30 Nov 2015, 16:05

Re: What does the Book of Mormon actually teach?

Post by grobert93 » 15 Apr 2019, 09:39

rrosskopf wrote:
15 Apr 2019, 08:19
Curt Sunshine wrote:
13 Apr 2019, 06:19
"Does the gift of God seem too meager for you?"
Consider, please, how condescending and condemning that question sounds to someone who has been uber faithful in the past and now is struggling.
I guess it could be taken that way. Some people would just realize that it is a gift from God and that they should look it from that perspective. There is no need to overcomplicate things. We don't need to know all things from the beginning. We don't need a perfect church. We don't need perfect prophets. We do need to know the consequences of our actions. We can learn those the hard way, or the easy way.
I actually like this perspective. We don’t need a perfect church, we don’t need perfect prophets. If this is an acceptable idea, then let’s treat the church and prophets as if they were not perfect but trying their best. Then we can learn to self-ponder and study what we are taught in the imperfect church by the imperfect prophet… sort of like the home study program! I like to see the prophets as imperfect humans with a stressful calling. When we see them this way, it becomes easier to relate to them, but to not take every word they say as doctrine or perfect gospel teachings. This in return can promote the self-discovery principle the home-centric gospel program is encouraging. All in all, we all benefit.

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dande48
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Re: What does the Book of Mormon actually teach?

Post by dande48 » 15 Apr 2019, 09:57

rrosskopf wrote:
15 Apr 2019, 08:19
I guess it could be taken that way. Some people would just realize that it is a gift from God and that they should look it from that perspective. There is no need to overcomplicate things. We don't need to know all things from the beginning. We don't need a perfect church. We don't need perfect prophets. We do need to know the consequences of our actions. We can learn those the hard way, or the easy way.
I am not looking for perfection. I am looking for "good enough". And there are many instances in which the Church has not been "good enough" for me. I try to "make it work", but it is an incredibly painful process, and at times I want to do away with it all together. As strange as it seems to some members, some people go to church and come home feeling worse. Some people open up their Standard Works, and just don't receive the answers they need. Sometimes, people pray and don't receive an answer in the Church's favor. Your experience is different, but that doesn't give you the right to invalidate another's experience.

I'm sure you can come up with a dozen reasons why, which fit your world view. I even heard an instructor several Sundays ago tell the class the number one reason people go inactive is because they stop attending church. :lol: He was dead serious too. But the reality is, many people... good, honest, rational people... are leaving the Church. Judging them isn't bringing them back. Saying they should appreciate it, isn't bringing them back. Saying the Church leaders "aren't perfect", isn't bringing them back. Shifting the blame onto those that leave isn't working. I feel you're approaching folks like me the same way the Church has approached us for years. It's not working.
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

"Even though there are no ways of knowing for sure, there are ways of knowing for pretty sure."
-Lemony Snicket

Roy
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Re: What does the Book of Mormon actually teach?

Post by Roy » 15 Apr 2019, 10:16

dande48 wrote:
15 Apr 2019, 09:57
I even heard an instructor several Sundays ago tell the class the number one reason people go inactive is because they stop attending church.
There are two types of people, those that attend Mormon worship services and those that do not. :lol: It can be frustrating when the answers given to almost any problem are instead the answers to how we can stay more closely loyal and aligned with the institutional church. As if to say, "You may be going through a soul-crushing experience, but at least your butt is in the pew every Sunday and that is what counts." I love my ward family and I can testify that they do care, it is just frustrating that we place so much emphasis on sorting people into the in group and the out group.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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rrosskopf
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Re: What does the Book of Mormon actually teach?

Post by rrosskopf » 15 Apr 2019, 14:18

dande48 wrote:
15 Apr 2019, 09:57

I am not looking for perfection. I am looking for "good enough". And there are many instances in which the Church has not been "good enough" for me.
What more could the church possibly do? What other churches have done more?

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nibbler
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Re: What does the Book of Mormon actually teach?

Post by nibbler » 15 Apr 2019, 14:42

What does the Book of Mormon actually teach?

That's the thread title.

We could probably move much of this discussion to a new thread.
It is said an Eastern monarch once charged his wise men to invent him a sentence to be ever in view, and which should be true and appropriate in all times and situations. They presented him the words, "And this too, shall pass away." How much it expresses! How chastening in the hour of pride! How consoling in the depths of affliction!
― Abraham Lincoln

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