Creating Worlds

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VioletFire
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Creating Worlds

Post by VioletFire » 26 Sep 2018, 20:25

I saw this being discussed on another site a bit, and it got me thinking- what do we really think about this topic? So I dove in and did a search and this is what mormon newsroom says on the topic:

Do Latter-day Saints believe that they will “get their own planet”?
No. This idea is not taught in Latter-day Saint scripture, nor is it a doctrine of the Church. This misunderstanding stems from speculative comments unreflective of scriptural doctrine. Mormons believe that we are all sons and daughters of God and that all of us have the potential to grow during and after this life to become like our Heavenly Father (see Romans 8:16-17). The Church does not and has never purported to fully understand the specifics of Christ’s statement that “in my Father’s house are many mansions” (John 14:2). Source: https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/mormonism-101

I find this rather humorous because I hear this casually talked about in church and among the community quite often.

What do you guys think?

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dande48
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Re: Creating Worlds

Post by dande48 » 26 Sep 2018, 22:39

It's one of those "unusual" beliefs non-members use to point out how "unusual" we are. The truth is, it's pretty nuanced. and the Mormon News Room answered it much in the same way they answered "Do Mormons Practice Polygammy?", and "Can women lead in the Church?". Mormonism-101 was written for investigators, in order to clear up some of the "rumors" in ways that will seem less weird. They asked their questions in such a way that they can give a simple, concise answer, without digging into the dirt of why people think otherwise.They took out all nuance.

Early Church leaders had plenty to say about exaltation and the hereafter. Current Church leaders have very little, especially very little new to say on the topic. But according to early prophets, exaltation means a promise of "worlds without end" populated by our "posterity". We will take the role of "gods" and shepherd our own children towards salvation and exaltation.
Brigham Young wrote:"Then will they become Gods...they will never cease to increase and to multiply, worlds without end. When they receive their crowns, their dominions, they then will be prepared to frame earths like unto ours and to people them in the same manner as we have been brought forth by our parents, by our Father and God" (Journal of Discourses 17:143)
So yes, we technically don't "get our own planet". Not all LDS will get exalted, and "they" means all latter day saints. But if you're blessed and faithful enough to meet exaltation, you make them. LOTS of them. And you have LOTS of children, and a spouse, so the planets will be shared (hence, not your own). It's just one more example of the Church oversimplifying to convert, and then later pulling an Obiwan, "what I told you was true, from a certain point of view."
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

"Even though there are no ways of knowing for sure, there are ways of knowing for pretty sure."
-Lemony Snicket

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SamBee
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Re: Creating Worlds

Post by SamBee » 27 Sep 2018, 02:12

Since we're continually told Satan controls this world, has he evolved to this stage? Maybe it doesn'r work out the way many folk think.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

Roy
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Re: Creating Worlds

Post by Roy » 27 Sep 2018, 13:40

I also believe that there is a subtle difference in the concepts being discussed.

1) "Get their own planet" implies that Mormons (or at least Mormon men) will be rewarded for their mortal dedication by becoming supreme ruler/dictator over an entire world.

2) Closer to what Mormons actually believe is that we will become benevolent parent deities over our countless spirit offspring. Thus we are to continue in the Work and the Glory of our Heavenly Father in planning for the eternal life and eventual exaltation of our posterity.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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SamBee
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Re: Creating Worlds

Post by SamBee » 27 Sep 2018, 14:13

Some Mormons* are in a world of their own already. :lol:

* COJCOLDS
Roy wrote:
27 Sep 2018, 13:40

2) Closer to what Mormons actually believe is that we will become benevolent parent deities over our countless spirit offspring. Thus we are to continue in the Work and the Glory of our Heavenly Father in planning for the eternal life and eventual exaltation of our posterity.
Exactly. It would happen in humility, benevolence and continuing the plan of our Heavenly Father & Jesus Christ.

But serious question. How do we view Satan? He is Lord of this World. We do not obey him as Christians, but theologically speaking I understand that humans' bad choices have handed this world over to him. Does Satan thus have a planet?

My take on this is that Satan is the evil perversion of Jesus's roles:

* Satan thinks he is fulfilling a plan, and claims to liberate mankind.
* Satan has control over this world, although Jesus is the real master and will destroy him.
* Satan's fall and suffering vs Jesus' suffering and descent to hell.
* Satan offers us many things in return for our allegiance.
* Satan has a greater knowledge and intelligence than we do currently. (But much less than Jesus).
* Satan has legions of (former) angels.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Creating Worlds

Post by Curt Sunshine » 28 Sep 2018, 15:49

Some members believe it, but it isn't taught actively as doctrine.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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nibbler
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Re: Creating Worlds

Post by nibbler » 29 Sep 2018, 08:15

SamBee wrote:
27 Sep 2018, 14:13
But serious question. How do we view Satan? He is Lord of this World. We do not obey him as Christians, but theologically speaking I understand that humans' bad choices have handed this world over to him. Does Satan thus have a planet?
A few factors:

1) The state of the world. Satan may be the "lord" of a world in a fallen state but not the lord of a world in any other state.

2) Who says Satan is the lord of this world? Satan? Maybe Satan believes he's the lord of this world but isn't. He's living a delusion or fails to see the big picture.
You can't break what's broken already.
- LeAnn Rimes

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SamBee
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Re: Creating Worlds

Post by SamBee » 29 Sep 2018, 11:56

nibbler wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 08:15
SamBee wrote:
27 Sep 2018, 14:13
But serious question. How do we view Satan? He is Lord of this World. We do not obey him as Christians, but theologically speaking I understand that humans' bad choices have handed this world over to him. Does Satan thus have a planet?
A few factors:

1) The state of the world. Satan may be the "lord" of a world in a fallen state but not the lord of a world in any other state.

2) Who says Satan is the lord of this world? Satan? Maybe Satan believes he's the lord of this world but isn't. He's living a delusion or fails to see the big picture.
He is and he isn't.

I certainly think many of those who control this world have given allegiance to Satan or what he represents, maybe not at some blood drinking ceremony with upside down crosses, but certainly by selling out to greed, sadism, cruelty, lust, selfishness, murder and the need to wield unrighteous authority over others.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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nibbler
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Re: Creating Worlds

Post by nibbler » 29 Sep 2018, 13:16

SamBee wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 11:56
I certainly think many of those who control this world have given allegiance to Satan or what he represents, maybe not at some blood drinking ceremony with upside down crosses, but certainly by selling out to greed, sadism, cruelty, lust, selfishness, murder and the need to wield unrighteous authority over others.
Are you talking about Satan or fundamentalist religious adherents? :angel:
You can't break what's broken already.
- LeAnn Rimes

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Heber13
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Re: Creating Worlds

Post by Heber13 » 29 Sep 2018, 14:55

Satan may think he has claim on the world and now God's servants have looked over the whole of it and want to take it from him...but it wasn't his to take away from.

Regarding the next life...I don't find we have specific teachings about much, but we have many projections and assumptions by many.

I think most temple recommend holders believe there will be chances to rule other worlds in the eternities...even if not sure how it works...but most believe we get sealed as couples so we can go do our godly stuff and become like our heavenly parents...without specifically know what that is.

I was at a work lunch once when one guy at the table started getting loud and boisterous and said he used to be Mormon but left because they were so whacky. Most knew I was Mormon even though this guy didn't...they looked at me to see if I was gonna be offended. I just spoke up..."well...I'm Mormon." And smiled.

He says to me: "Are you kidding? So ... You believe you're getting your own planet when you go to heaven?" and then laughed.

It was actually awkward because he was being rude (he was in IT and didn't have great people skills...we all knew that about him anyway).

I just replied...."I dunno...but do you believe it's out of the question? Do you really know what happens after death for sure? I'm not so sure it is much whackier than believing you get reincarnated, or that hell is fire and heaven is clouds and harps, or that there is 144,000 saved. All religions can seem whacky to the outsider who doesn't believe it. Truth is....we won't know until we get there."

Just seems like...all religions have their beliefs ..but none of us know for sure. It doesn't hurt or help to believe in getting a planet to rule...it will or it won't happen. Focus now is on becoming a good person...the rest will take care of itself.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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