Filled With Charity Even When Not Living Church Commandments

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Ilovechrist77
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Filled With Charity Even When Not Living Church Commandments

Post by Ilovechrist77 » 21 Apr 2018, 23:03

Earlier this month, after practicing mindfulness meditation, I prayed to Heavenly Father, asking Him to forgive me of my sins. I received such a sweet confirmation that caused me to break down, telling me that He forgave me of all my sins and that I was filled with charity. The Spirit also confirmed to me that many people inside and outside the church are filled with it, including many people in immoral careers and whatnot. I highly doubt that came from the Devil or myself. It still fills me with too much peace?

What are you thoughts on this?

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SilentDawning
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Re: Filled With Charity Even When Not Living Church Commandments

Post by SilentDawning » 22 Apr 2018, 07:20

It's tough for me to comment on it. I do have faith in spiritual experiences, so that is why i continue to say I have a testimony of the church, in spite of my commitment problems with it.

At the same time, I have found that when I feel deeply about something, my own depth of feeling can create emotions. I had one such feeling the other day when I saw a student who I had worked hard with all session. She who had bumbled a practice presentation terribly, and I had given her more feedback. She then got up and presented the Accounting and Finance portion of a new business startup so well, so professionally, so thoroughly (she even satisfied a critical panel of all their questions and concerns), I felt this overwhelming emotion that felt JUST like the spirit overcoming me. And bring God into it -- the idea of someone bigger and more benevolent than I am, swooping in and helping me out of nothing but love -- that tends to create even more emotion. That alone is a "touching thought".

Was it the spirit, or was it my personality, my biology (doctor says I have may have a brain that is sensitive to emotion) or just my overwhelming happiness for what I, as a teacher, and this student had accomplished?

I am no longer certain.

On the other hand -- your conclusion about so many people who are good people, even if in sinful professions, resonates with me. One thing that trying to effect change in organizations and my family and more that I have learned is that everyone is different. They have different perspectives and situations you can't hope to anticipate without deep research. God has that information. He may realize that the single parent who turns to prostitution and maybe even weed to ease the pain may also be a loving parent, son or daughter, a good neighbor who simply didn't see a way out, or had low self esteem due to a broken childhood, or more. He sees it ALL, and can make a balanced judgment about how to bless that person's life.

I have seen this over and over again when people with a lot of life experience (often bent over and tired) make decisions that are far more moderate than I would make given the veneer of circumstances I see in the offending persons' life. They have a depth to see all sides and perhaps even greater compassion than myself. I haven't had to suffer the kind of abuse so many on our planet suffer, so I don't see as compassionately as they do..

So, I have no clear opinion on the spiritual experience, but wholeheartedly agree with your conclusion about it.

I also have no fear of death right now. At least, not at the moment. Our church has some pretty nasty things to say about people in my situation and my state after death, but I am having trouble believing god will consign me to eternal hell, loneliness and damnation given the way I have tried to respond to some really distressing life circumstances. Does he want that pressure, to have to keep us half-milers all at bay for eternity when we are more than willing to change our ways now that we know for certain promised outcomes are true? Or now that life circumstances that made purity nearly impossible are gone?

I think eternal damnation is a concept that is a result of harsh leadership and religious perspectives during the time of the Romans and Old Testament times. Not the perspective of a loving, enlightened God.
Last edited by SilentDawning on 22 Apr 2018, 07:29, edited 3 times in total.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"Stage 5 is where you no longer believe the gospel as its literally or traditionally taught. Nonetheless, you find your own way to be active and at peace within it". -- SD

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Roy
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Re: Filled With Charity Even When Not Living Church Commandments

Post by Roy » 22 Apr 2018, 07:23

I had an experience somewhat like this about a decade ago. It still forms the basis of my belief structure.

I choose to believe that my experience came as a message of love, acceptance, and encouragement from loving Heavenly Parents.

I choose to believe the same about your experience.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

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SilentDawning
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Re: Filled With Charity Even When Not Living Church Commandments

Post by SilentDawning » 22 Apr 2018, 07:30

Roy wrote:
22 Apr 2018, 07:23
I had an experience somewhat like this about a decade ago. It still forms the basis of my belief structure.

I choose to believe that my experience came as a message of love, acceptance, and encouragement from loving Heavenly Parents.

I choose to believe the same about your experience.
I like the implications of Roy's statement -- he CHOOSES TO BELIEVE. In the absence of surety (basically what my post above said), he looks at the spiritual evidence and accepts and interpretation that makes sense to him. Great advice!
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"Stage 5 is where you no longer believe the gospel as its literally or traditionally taught. Nonetheless, you find your own way to be active and at peace within it". -- SD

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

My introduction: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1576

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Filled With Charity Even When Not Living Church Commandments

Post by Curt Sunshine » 22 Apr 2018, 11:46

I would have responded in almost the exact way Roy did.

Count it as a wonderful blessing and hang onto the feeling you received. It is a good thing. Period.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

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dande48
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Re: Filled With Charity Even When Not Living Church Commandments

Post by dande48 » 22 Apr 2018, 13:37

There's the whole "grace of God" concept, where people are redeemed irrespective of how much they are deserving. Charity is an attribute, and like most attributes, it has many varying degrees. You can lack charity while keeping most commandments, and have charity while breaking most commandments. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "immoral careers", but it's hard to imagine some of them having much charity, especially if they are harming others for personal gain. Some politicians might have charity, because their end focus is the betterment of society, despite taking very corrupt means to get there. Some protitutes might, degrading themselves and others, but for a "good cause" like supporting their family. Lawyers and soldiers can have charity for those they serve, albiet often at the ruthless and largely uncharitable attitude they take towards "the enemy".

I think you've hit on an important truth. Most people cannot be divided into "good" or "bad". Those we call evil, more often than not, are just hurt or loney or sad.
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

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Ilovechrist77
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Re: Filled With Charity Even When Not Living Church Commandments

Post by Ilovechrist77 » 22 Apr 2018, 15:33

Dande48, I basically meant any business that's considering breaking of the law of chastity. The reason why I didn't come and specifically state the business was because it's a sensitive topic and I've seen discussions of similar natures get too heated. And I agree when it comes to things that are degrading, that is hard to make sense out of. Maybe in some ways what's degrading can be in the eyes beholder. Many of the feminists in our church believe the brethren as a whole are chauvinistic or degrading to women because females aren't given the priesthood and Heavenly Mother is hardly ever mentioned in church meetings. I don't agree with that statement, but I support women's lib, so I would love to see either females get the priesthood or power to bless the sick, or have Heavenly Mother emphasized more often in church meetings. I also agree that they are people that obey church commandments that do have charity and those that do obey church commandments don't have charity. I'm still trying to figure out whether that former mission president, Joseph Bishop, that supposedly raped his former sister missionary has or had charity to begin. I listened to the audio. It was disturbing and sad. If it really happened like how that woman says it did, I pray she'll heal and Joseph will get help, however that help might come. Even in the next life, maybe. I've had similar addiction to Bishop, but I've never done anything like that to anyone. I have stolen from my parents before to support my addiction, but never raped, molested, murdered, or assaulted anyone. I've repented for hurting my parents and we do have a close relationship. It And I'm cured from my addiction because of mindfulness meditation. I know it sounds stereotypical, but God did cure of that addiction. Not in the way I'd thought it'd come, but it came.

SilentDawning, my brain is that way too. Because of my higher functioning Autism, people yelling at me causes to break down. That's one reason why I never enlisted in the military. Too much yelling at me during basic training would cause me to break down. Thanks for sharing with that experience in your classroom. That was really interesting.

Thank you, Curt and Roy. I'm definitely accepting the feeling for what it is.

Growing up, I wouldn't say I was a monster. I was a nice kid, but like many kids, I was easily impatient, selfish, impulsive. I was baptized at 8, but it was mental conversion. I didn't have much of a relationship with God. Sacrament meetings were often so boring to me I would constantly look at the clock. Then my teens came and eventually my sex addiction developed with it, hurting my parents, not originally intending to. Eventually I wanted nothing to do with the church due to addiction and just feeling bored with church, but eventually young single adults from my ward came into my life inspiring me to follow a better path. So, long story short, from these new friendships and the close ones I had in church, did the standard church answers, was converted to the Lord and the church spiritually. Eventually I decided to serve a mission. I served a faithful mission. Came back filled with more love for the Lord and people that I had ever had before.

Now, I'm at the point where I'm at now. Sometimes I wish I had never have had researched some of the information I did about the uncut history of the church, but I've got so much more faith in Christ than ever. I still strive to follow Christ and become like Him, still sustain my local leaders (Although my more traditional than me, he is my lifelong friend. A very nice guy.), and the brethren, but I don't blindly accept what they say or teach. I can't do that anymore. I began going back to church today. Even though at church there are some things I hear that drive me nuts, I still feel the Spirit when I go. I just wish we could have either less Sunday meetings or not 3-hour blocks. I'm always tired afterwards. Sigh.

Anyway, everyone, thanks for the comments.

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DarkJedi
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Re: Filled With Charity Even When Not Living Church Commandments

Post by DarkJedi » 22 Apr 2018, 16:09

I have had a similar experience as well. More than once actually. I am reminded that when Joseph Smith went to the grove to pray his main goal was to ask for forgiveness (made very clear if you read all four main accounts).

I'm with others who say count it as blessing or a tender mercy and go with it.

Oh, and I have studied the matter - I have failed to find anywhere in the scriptures where "worthiness" of things like the Holy Ghost (or forgiveness of sins) depends on our obedience. The atonement is for everybody.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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