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Re: Not quite President

Posted: 08 Mar 2018, 20:42
by Curt Sunshine
Hyrum Smith

In practical, genealogical terms, this is his church, not Joseph's. That is far too easy to forget.

(much like the Book of Mormon is Jacob's record more than Nephi's)

Re: Not quite President

Posted: 09 Mar 2018, 09:05
by DarkJedi
I've always liked Oliver Cowdery and he did have a great deal of influence as Joseph's friend and confidant. Were he to have stayed with the church I think it would have evolved differently, although I question whether he might have stayed with the Missouri church when the others moved west. I suppose that depends on other things - like if BY become president or not.

Re: Not quite President

Posted: 09 Mar 2018, 12:29
by SamBee
Roadrunner wrote:
08 Mar 2018, 15:02
Emma Smith.

If she had handled polygamy differently (in support of or in opposition to) we might have a very different church.
Yes I think she did have a big influence on the church, though she ended up in the RLDS. I put Eliza Snow as my female choice (and let's be honest, there aren't many), because we still sing her hymns.

It's said by some that complaints about spittoons by her led to the Word of Wisdom.

Re: Not quite President

Posted: 09 Mar 2018, 21:15
by Beefster
SamBee wrote:
09 Mar 2018, 12:29
Yes I think she did have a big influence on the church, though she ended up in the RLDS. I put Eliza Snow as my female choice (and let's be honest, there aren't many), because we still sing her hymns.
I hope you're not including "In Our Lovely Deseret" in that list. Good gravy, that's a bad hymn. Her other stuff is good though. :P

It's a shame there aren't many other influential women.

The only one that comes to mind is Cheiko Okazaki.

Re: Not quite President

Posted: 09 Mar 2018, 21:22
by dande48
DarkJedi wrote:
09 Mar 2018, 09:05
I've always liked Oliver Cowdery and he did have a great deal of influence as Joseph's friend and confidant. Were he to have stayed with the church I think it would have evolved differently, although I question whether he might have stayed with the Missouri church when the others moved west. I suppose that depends on other things - like if BY become president or not.
I always liked Oliver Cowdery. I think if he, Orson Hyde, or even Thomas Marsh were allowed to become president (over BY), the Church would've really prospered. I feel like those men genuinely loved Joseph Smith, but at the same time were willing to put their foot down when things got out of hand.

Re: Not quite President

Posted: 10 Mar 2018, 09:17
by SamBee
Beefster wrote:
09 Mar 2018, 21:15
SamBee wrote:
09 Mar 2018, 12:29
Yes I think she did have a big influence on the church, though she ended up in the RLDS. I put Eliza Snow as my female choice (and let's be honest, there aren't many), because we still sing her hymns.
I hope you're not including "In Our Lovely Deseret" in that list. Good gravy, that's a bad hymn. Her other stuff is good though. :P

It's a shame there aren't many other influential women.

The only one that comes to mind is Cheiko Okazaki.
Sheri Dew comes to mind...

I find Eliza Snow one of the most interesting people in the early church.

From the Wikipedia (!) article we learn the following:

* She was instrumental in ensuring the construction of the Kirtland temple.
* She was gang raped so badly by anti-Mormons that she couldn't conceive children. 😟
* She influenced directly President Lorenzo Snow. And quite probably both Joseph Smith & Brigham Young.
* She was instrumental in shaping the Relief Society.

That and being a good writer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliza_R._Snow

Re: Not quite President

Posted: 11 Mar 2018, 15:12
by Roy
Marion G. Romney
SamBee wrote:
10 Mar 2018, 09:17
She was gang raped so badly by anti-Mormons that she couldn't conceive children.
I understand the evidence for this to be weak. It may have happened and then not spoken of in mixed company or documented due to the sensitive nature. Or it is possible that this is just wives tale gossip intended to demonize the anti-Mormon Missouri mob and ennoble the childless status of Eliza Snow. Until we find more compelling evidence for a rape, I am leaning towards the latter.

Re: Not quite President

Posted: 11 Mar 2018, 16:30
by DarkJedi
Joseph B. Wirthlin. Minor influence, but present nonetheless. I seem to hear him quoted more often than many of his contemporaries (and I often quote him myself).

Re: Not quite President

Posted: 12 Mar 2018, 18:59
by LDS_Scoutmaster
Paul H. Dunn

I remember justifying some of his stories, 'embelishing' rather than outright lying. But then I realized that people are the same regardless of stature or position.

Re: Not quite President

Posted: 13 Mar 2018, 08:23
by SamBee
LDS_Scoutmaster wrote:
12 Mar 2018, 18:59
Paul H. Dunn

I remember justifying some of his stories, 'embelishing' rather than outright lying. But then I realized that people are the same regardless of stature or position.
A lot of people embellish their life stories, especially politicians, actors and writers.