Takenouchi Manuscripts and the story of Jesus

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dande48
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Takenouchi Manuscripts and the story of Jesus

Post by dande48 » 13 May 2017, 19:30

I came across this article on the Takenouchi Manuscripts from Japan. http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/t ... 165354242/

It provides an alternate story of Jesus; The major points of the story are found on a sign, next to the "Grave of Christ", in Shingō, Aomori. It reads:
When Jesus Christ was 21 years old, he came to Japan and pursued knowledge of divinity for 12 years. He went back to Judea at age 33 and engaged in his mission. However, at that time, people in Judea would not accept Christ's preaching. Instead, they arrested him and tried to crucify him on a cross. His younger brother, Isukiri casually took Christ's place and ended his life on the cross.

Christ, who escaped the crucifixion, went through the ups and downs of travel, and again came to Japan. He settled right here in what is now called Herai Village, and died at the age of 106.

On this holy ground, there is dedicated a burial mound on the right to deify Christ, and a grave on the left to deify Isukiri.

The above description was given in a testament by Jesus Christ.
Is this the authentic story of Christ? Probably not. At the same time, something within the story resonates within me. I like the idea that after Christ sacrificed so much to try and save his people, that he was able to journey back to a land he loved, marry a farmer's daughter, have children, and live a happy life to the end of his days.

The biggest part missing from this story is the atonement; most Christians believe it the center of Christ's work. I am not sure where I stand, in literal belief. But with my sins, I would rather take full responsibility for them, and pay the price. Part of me shirks at the thought that anyone else, Christ especially, should take on the consequences and suffer for my mistakes. I would much rather see Jesus live a happy and fulfilling life, surrounded by loved ones, in the hills of Shingō, Aomori.
"Sir, it's quite possible this asteroid is not entirely stable." - C-3PO

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mom3
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Re: Takenouchi Manuscripts and the story of Jesus

Post by mom3 » 14 May 2017, 00:28

Nearly 30 years ago a Catholic employer of mine read about this in National Geographic or something akin to it. It really rocked her boat. I remember hearing it and floating for days. There was still a sacrifice. "A life laid down for a friend." To me it is still so beautiful. I love the potential and the symbolism.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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Reuben
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Re: Takenouchi Manuscripts and the story of Jesus

Post by Reuben » 14 May 2017, 02:02

Thanks for this! I've never heard of it before. Fascinating piece of Bible fanfic. Apparently, it has Atlantis and panspermia, too!
mom3 wrote:
14 May 2017, 00:28
Nearly 30 years ago a Catholic employer of mine read about this in National Geographic or something akin to it. It really rocked her boat. I remember hearing it and floating for days. There was still a sacrifice. "A life laid down for a friend." To me it is still so beautiful. I love the potential and the symbolism.
The ultimate sacrifice still resonates with me, perhaps more now that I'm agnostic and it seems so much more ultimate. It's one thing I love about Harry Potter, too.

Also the original Tron (1982), which is also totally Bible fanfic. Think about it. Flynn is Jesus, a god (user) made flesh (program), who sacrifices himself to free the world (system) from the devil (MCP). He's persecuted by his own creations, who have been turned against him by his adversary. The look of holy ecstasy on Ram's face as he realizes he's dying in a deity's arms after years of enduring faith is priceless. And I guess Tron is John the Baptist.

Derail over; back to the topic. Uh... Jesus became a rice farmer? How is that ministering to the lost tribes?

By the way, mom3, what was it about this that rocked your employer's boat?
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nibbler
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Re: Takenouchi Manuscripts and the story of Jesus

Post by nibbler » 14 May 2017, 03:53

How's that for timing? I saw a video on youtube about two weeks ago where someone went to visit the tomb. They took a more comedic/mocking approach but that's how I was introduced to the story. The phrase "casually took Christ's place" was too tempting for the people that put the video together. I'm sure it's a translation thing but it is kind of :wtf:

The video gave a short synopsis about Christian missionaries arriving in Japan in the 1500s, how people practicing Christianity were executed for their beliefs, and that the practice of Christianity survived in very small pockets by going underground.
Reuben wrote:
14 May 2017, 02:02
Uh... Jesus became a rice farmer? How is that ministering to the lost tribes?
Is there a better way to minister to the lost tribes?
all sinners, a future, all saints, a past, beginning, the ending, return to ash

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DarkJedi
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Re: Takenouchi Manuscripts and the story of Jesus

Post by DarkJedi » 14 May 2017, 04:29

I had not heard this before. I suppose in the sense I also don't believe in the literal story as told in the Bible, I could buy part of this story.

While I like the idea of the atonement, I also recognize the value of the Jewish view of atonement, which is more of what we might call repentance. I don't suppose I need the actual suffering on Christ's part to believe that we can be forgiven and perhaps the actual key to forgiveness is repentance. I've been doing a little study of repentance (I'm letting Isaiah rest a bit - rather I'm giving myself a rest from Isaiah ;) ) and if we come to view repentance as change or willingness to change, we seem to be doing what Christ asked of us. Sackcloth and ashes (works) seem to much less a part of repentance than the idea of change (grace).

At present I'm still not sure where Christ exactly fits or even if there was a Jesus who did what the Bible says he did. I do choose to believe at this point, but the belief is very fluid and open to interpretation. I'm not at all sure the Bible accounts are correct and thus this story could be just as "true."
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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dande48
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Re: Takenouchi Manuscripts and the story of Jesus

Post by dande48 » 14 May 2017, 08:42

Reuben wrote:
14 May 2017, 02:02
Thanks for this! I've never heard of it before. Fascinating piece of Bible fanfic. Apparently, it has Atlantis and panspermia, too!

The ultimate sacrifice still resonates with me, perhaps more now that I'm agnostic and it seems so much more ultimate. It's one thing I love about Harry Potter, too.
On the first part, was that sarcasm? I couldn't tell. ;) The best part is, Japan is central to all of it! And I thought America was supposed to be the center of the universe...

On the second, have you ever heard of Joseph Campbell, and the universal myth? Here's a documentary synopsis, which covers the main points. But to summarize, Joseph Cambell was a historian who was the leading expert in comparitive mythology and comparitive religion. He came up with the theory that all of the best stories, from the Odyssey, to Jesus Christ, to Harry Potter and the Hunger Games, all hold the same story arch, which he called "The Hero's Journey". It's a wonderful analysis, showing how all these timeless tales resonate within us.
"Sir, it's quite possible this asteroid is not entirely stable." - C-3PO

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mom3
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Re: Takenouchi Manuscripts and the story of Jesus

Post by mom3 » 14 May 2017, 09:19

By the way, mom3, what was it about this that rocked your employer's boat?
She was devout Catholic. The Catholic Church was The One True Church. Peter was the Rock. Directly from Christ. Therefore - anything else was a break off or less.

The idea that Jesus would sneak off, hide, then have someone else do the job just smacked way too hard.

The Book of Mormon, even 3rd Nephi, was pure heresy to her and Our Lord, as she would often refer to him.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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Re: Takenouchi Manuscripts and the story of Jesus

Post by Curt Sunshine » 14 May 2017, 15:05

This was quite well-known on my mission - and it was framed as evidence of his post-resurrection ministry, like in the Book of Mormon.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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