In sacrament I'll be giving a talk on obedience

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SamBee
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Re: In sacrament I'll be giving a talk on obedience

Post by SamBee » 20 Apr 2017, 15:02

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DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

DoubtingTom
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Re: In sacrament I'll be giving a talk on obedience

Post by DoubtingTom » 20 Apr 2017, 19:16

Lots of different directions you could take this, but I like the approach about focusing on the Spirit and following your own conscience, in your own best effort to be following Christ. Here's some good quotes that may come in handy:
Brigham Young: "I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are being led by him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind security, trusting their eternal destiny in the hands of their leaders with a reckless confidence that in itself would thwart the purposes of God in their salvation, and weaken that influence they could give their leaders if they know for themselves by the revelations of Jesus Christ that they are led in the right way. Let every man and woman know by the whisperings of the Spirit of God to themselves whether their leaders are walking in the way the Lord dictates or not."
Harold B. Lee: "It is not alone sufficient for us as Latter-day Saints to follow our leaders and to accept their counsel, but we have the greater obligation to gain for ourselves the unshakable testimony of [1] the divine appointment of these men and [2] the witness that what they have told us is the will of our Heavenly Father."
Elder S. Dilworth Young, First Council of the Seventy: “You must work through the Spirit. If that leads you into conflict with the program of the Church, you follow the voice of the Spirit.”
President Joseph F. Smith: "We desire that the brethren and sisters will all feel the responsibility of expressing their feelings in relation to the propositions that may be put before you. We do not want any man or woman who is a member of the Church to violate their conscience. We would like all to vote as they feel, whether for or against."
President Joseph F. Smith: "Men and women should become settled in the truth and rounded in a knowledge of the Gospel, depending upon no person for borrowed light, but trusting only upon the Holy Spirit, who is ever the same."
Nephi: "Cursed is he that putteth his trust in man, or maketh flesh his arm, or shall hearken unto the precepts of men, save their precepts shall be given by the power of the Holy Ghost." (2 Nephi 28:31)
Ultimately the question is obedience to who? We are not asked to be obedient to any person, but only to God - and how does he communicate to us? Through our conscience, impressions, spirit, the Light of Christ, whatever you want to call it, but ultimately we must be honest with ourselves and obedience to what we know is right.

Stayforthedip
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Re: In sacrament I'll be giving a talk on obedience

Post by Stayforthedip » 20 Apr 2017, 20:18

It's been a long time since I have been asked to give a talk. (Great, now I am probably going to get asked.) But when I do, I usually take one element of the topic and spin off into something I think is more important/relevant/useful/interesting. You are a volunteer speaker. Speak to what matters to you!

Plus, 90% of the people will only catch 10% of what you say. So throw in some scriptures and quotes and no one will be the wiser :)

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Heber13
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Re: In sacrament I'll be giving a talk on obedience

Post by Heber13 » 21 Apr 2017, 08:27

Elder Runland: Our Good Shepherd
The Savior’s compassion, love, and mercy draw us toward Him.19 Through His Atonement, we are no longer satisfied with our sinful state.20 God is clear about what is right and acceptable to Him and what is wrong and sinful. This is not because He desires to have mindless, obedient followers. No, our Heavenly Father desires that His children knowingly and willingly choose to become like Him21 and qualify for the kind of life He enjoys.22 In doing so, His children fulfill their divine destiny and become heirs to all that He has.23 For this reason, Church leaders cannot alter God’s commandments or doctrine contrary to His will, to be convenient or popular.
This is a possible addition to a talk on obedience.

Emphasis on: He does NOT want mindless obedience. An apostle is teaching us that. He doesn't.

He wants us to focus on love, and obedience is the tool to use to help develop God-like qualities, and practice to BECOME more like him.

And just as the church has to stand it's ground to try to obey His will, even when unpopular...well...each of us also make these choices. Sometimes my choices may be unpopular to other members of this church, but I too want to be obedient to what I see and know in my heart is what God wants for me, through the spirit. It is why, at times, I do not agree with some things at church. And that is OK. Love is greater than fear, and contention.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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Minyan Man
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Re: In sacrament I'll be giving a talk on obedience

Post by Minyan Man » 21 Apr 2017, 09:32

As I've thought about your topic, I've come to the conclusion that this is a really interesting topic. Especially in light of
the issues you've gone through since being on this site. FWIW: we are asked to be obedient to alot of different authorities
in our lifetime. Ultimately the final authority is God & how we choose to obey (or not).

Let us know how it goes. I wish I were in your ward to hear it.

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Holy Cow
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Re: In sacrament I'll be giving a talk on obedience

Post by Holy Cow » 21 Apr 2017, 13:24

Bednar came and did a special stake conference in our stake a few months back. Most of his talk was a repeat of his priesthood conference talk about being called to serve, rather than being called to a specific mission. He must have been using us as a practice round for his conference talk. But, there was one thing he said that I really didn't like, "The greatest strength of today's youth is their capacity for strict obedience to the words of the Lord's prophets." He then spent about five minutes talking about the importance of obeying the prophet and the apostles. Wasn't my favorite talk. After listening to that, I would probably get up and say something like, "I've been asked to speak about obedience, so I've decided to talk about the Atonement instead." ;)
Seriously, though, I like DoubtingTom's approach. Talking about obedience to God comes first, and it's our responsibility to figure out what comes from God. Instead of following the prophets with blind obedience, we've been told from multiple sources, that we should pray about these things ourselves, so we're following God, not people.
My introduction: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6139

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Ilovechrist77
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Re: In sacrament I'll be giving a talk on obedience

Post by Ilovechrist77 » 21 Apr 2017, 15:57

Great comments and suggestions so far. These are great:
Bednar came and did a special stake conference in our stake a few months back. Most of his talk was a repeat of his Opriesthood conference talk about being called to serve, rather than being called to a specific mission. He must have been using us as a practice round for his conference talk. But, there was one thing he said that I really didn't like, "The greatest strength of today's youth is their capacity for strict obedience to the words of the Lord's prophets." He then spent about five minutes talking about the importance of obeying the prophet and the apostles. Wasn't my favorite talk. After listening to that, I would probably get up and say something like, "I've been asked to speak about obedience, so I've decided to talk about the Atonement instead." ;)
Seriously, though, I like DoubtingTom's approach. Talking about obedience to God comes first, and it's our responsibility to figure out what comes from God. Instead of following the prophets with blind obedience, we've been told from multiple sources, that we should pray about these things ourselves, so we're following God, not people.
Well, I believe Bednar's heart is in the right place, but his talks and personality normally comes across as too strict and not very emphatic. I agree with you and DoubtingTom that obedience to God comes first and we're responsible for finding out what comes from God, instead of following the prophets with blind obedience.
As I've thought about your topic, I've come to the conclusion that this is a really interesting topic. Especially in light of
the issues you've gone through since being on this site. FWIW: we are asked to be obedient to alot of different authorities
in our lifetime. Ultimately the final authority is God & how we choose to obey (or not).

Let us know how it goes. I wish I were in your ward to hear it
Mnyan Man, I agree the final is God and how we choose to obey Him or not. I wish you were in my ward too.

I'm going to begin preparing it this weekend and I'll let everyone know how it goes. :thumbup:

Curt Sunshine
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Re: In sacrament I'll be giving a talk on obedience

Post by Curt Sunshine » 22 Apr 2017, 13:06

There is a way to be perfectly obedient, but we over-complicate it.

1) Love God, and love neighbor as self. On these two commandments hang ALL the law and the prophets.

2) Paul says in 1 Corinthians 13 that everything else means nothing without charity.

3) The Beatitudes are about how to be loving, and they lead to becoming perfect (complete, whole, fully developed).

I would quote those three passages and talk about how obeying other rules and commandments but not being a truly loving, charitable person means we actually are not being obedient to God. (Christ also condemned the Pharisees for paying tithing but omitting the WEIGHTIER MATTERS of the law.)

If I make a mistake, I want to make it by loving too much and being too charitable and too forgiving and too humble and too meek and too merciful, rather than by obeying every rule no matter what that does to others. If my actions hurt someone else unnecessarily, I am not obeying God by keeping the only commandment that matters - even if my actions technically are obeying a rule we see as a commandment.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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Ilovechrist77
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Re: In sacrament I'll be giving a talk on obedience

Post by Ilovechrist77 » 23 Apr 2017, 18:09

Thank you, everyone, for the fantastic comments. Sad news. :( I'm sorry but I won't be able to give the talk. No problems with me or my bishop. I would like my parents to hear my talk, but they can't be there. They're talking my older sister to the airport. So I talked it over with my bishop and he was able to find someone else to give the talk.

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SilentDawning
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Re: In sacrament I'll be giving a talk on obedience

Post by SilentDawning » 24 Apr 2017, 07:19

The discussion wasn't in vain; I crafted a talk I could give that has double meaning on obedience -- a topic that I don't like very much at all, and normally would refuse to talk about it. Now I can do it.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"Stage 5 is where you no longer believe the gospel as its literally or traditionally taught. Nonetheless, you find your own way to be active and at peace within it". -- SD

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

My introduction: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1576

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