Did Heavenly Mother participate in the creation?

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Ann
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Re: Did Heavenly Mother participate in the creation?

Post by Ann » 24 Feb 2017, 13:16

Joni wrote:If God doesn't see fit to correct the sexist assumptions of His prophets, with whom He presumably communicates on a regular basis, then doesn't He share some of the blame? He has never, in 180+ years of direct revelation, insisted that His wife get Her fair share of praise and gratitude for Her role in the creation.

Imagine how different the church would be if Heavenly Mother had been a participant in the First Vision! We wouldn't have to keep Her in the shadows since She would have been a vital part of our doctrine from day one.
All this scripture, and God never saw fit to plainly say that buying and selling other human beings is wrong. That helps me keep my expectations of God's communications low and strengthens my opinion that we are here to think and do right for each other.

So, when I hear we can't change because God hasn't told us to, I almost want to say that I need to go find people who realize that it's up to us to change. (On a bad day....)
"Preachers err by trying to talk people into belief; better they reveal the radiance of their own discovery." - Joseph Campbell

"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." - Marcel Proust

"Therefore they said unto him, How were thine eyes opened? He answered and said unto them, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes...." - John 9:10-11

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mom3
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Re: Did Heavenly Mother participate in the creation?

Post by mom3 » 24 Feb 2017, 16:04

Imagine how different the church would be if Heavenly Mother had been a participant in the First Vision
That is precisely why I love the 1832 version of the First Vision. It was one being. It was about Forgiveness. It even holds whispers of becoming a Deist.

The Heavenly Mother who arrived in my heart at the age of 4 is absolutely central to everything we do. She has comforted me privately in dark times. I believe her artistry shapes more than we ever imagine. I imagine earth creation like a massive Jr. High school project. Even the kid who "does it on his own" had some help whether in brain storming, supply collection, or final touch up painting. Parents were there.

As a women I go as far as I can, and I watch my direction so I don't close doors for other women. It's a haul but I think Heavenly Mother appreciates my effort.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Did Heavenly Mother participate in the creation?

Post by Curt Sunshine » 25 Feb 2017, 16:05

Many of our issues stem from confusing people's (especially men's) words as God's pure truth. That is true, especially, about things written thousands of years ago, many of which were understood by the people who wrote them to be figurative, symbolic, mythological, etc.

I love Holy Cow's interpretation of the creation / Garden narrative. I love the view of it as describing the premortal choice we made to leave God / the Gods and follow Lucifer into a world of toil and pain. I love the view of It showing the equality of premortality and the inequality of mortality. I love other views. I don't love other views. I actively dislike other views. I despise other views.

I am free to take that stance. I am free to be me.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

Roy
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Re: Did Heavenly Mother participate in the creation?

Post by Roy » 25 Feb 2017, 20:42

DarkJedi wrote:my anger transferred to the church because that's where I learned the stuff.
I think I had a bit of an epiphany.
1) I am resentful at the church for teaching me assumptions that did not hold up to be true in my life.
2) I am resentful at the church for failing to accept/embrace/understand me in my post FC state.
IOW, there is ongoing trauma as I perceive the church to be continuing to reject me.

As to Heavenly Mother, I am really quite surprised that her existence has become an orthodox teaching. She is found nowhere in the standard works. What we know about her seems to come from the same speculative sources that give us "As man is God once was" and the Adam-God theory. I see the essay on HM as taking a huge step in bringing Her out of the speculative realm.

However, as you point out, normalizing the theory of her existence opens up its own can of worms.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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DarkJedi
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Re: Did Heavenly Mother participate in the creation?

Post by DarkJedi » 25 Feb 2017, 21:55

Roy wrote: I think I had a bit of an epiphany.
1) I am resentful at the church for teaching me assumptions that did not hold up to be true in my life.
2) I am resentful at the church for failing to accept/embrace/understand me in my post FC state.
IOW, there is ongoing trauma as I perceive the church to be continuing to reject me.
Interesting.
1) I was resentful of the church for a short time after transferring that resentment from God. I ended up transferring again, though - to people members in general (and sometimes specific individuals). Much of this teaching happened so long ago that it's worthless to hold the grudge, some of the people are dead. I could be deceiving myself, but I really do believe it's people who led me astray as opposed to the church. I don't resent the church (perhaps I have forgiven?) and I don't resent the individuals/groups (I think I have definitely forgiven). That does not mean that I don't have feelings about it all the time, I do go to F&TM after all. For the most part I chalk it up to not fully understanding or being deceived themselves.
2) I'm with you. I think I have met with some acceptance and understanding, but I am still a llama among sheep. I'm not sure if it's the church or the members I resent for this.

I learned about Heavenly Mother from a non-member (an anti one actually). I was within my first few months of membership and asked my mentors who explained her as best they could to me. One of the things I liked about the church, especially early on in my membership, was that it seemed like most things made sense. A God that was beg enough to fill the universe but could fit in my heart made no sense to me, the Mormon God made sense. Such was the case with Heavenly Mother - she made sense. My perceptions and understanding of both (and many other things) has certainly evolved and changed vastly over time, but she still makes sense - more sense than Adam participating in the creation. With that I'll take my general stance and focus on what I do believe and what I believe there is enough scriptural evidence of and wait on the rest. I do believe the fullness of the gospel is here (I don't believe it ever left, actually) and how God did the creation doesn't seem to be a part of it.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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