Did Heavenly Mother participate in the creation?

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Joni
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Did Heavenly Mother participate in the creation?

Post by Joni » 23 Feb 2017, 06:16

Just wondering what the average StayLDS member thinks of this topic. Since we have virtually no revealed doctrine about our Heavenly Mother(s), there is a lot of speculation, and this has been on my mind lately.

1. Do you think Heavenly Mother(s) participated in the creation of the earth?

2. If yes, how do you reconcile that with the fact that the creation is depicted in the temple as being an all male endeavor?

I have thoughts (don't I always), but I'm interested to hear what others think.

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DarkJedi
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Re: Did Heavenly Mother participate in the creation?

Post by DarkJedi » 23 Feb 2017, 07:02

I try not to deal in speculation, so my short answer is I don't know and I don't think anybody knows (including Joseph Smith, Bruce McConkie, Cleon Skousen and Thomas Monson).

I actually think the Big Bang is a plausible explanation of how the universe was created, similar to how I believe evolution is plausible. I don't know how God did it, I only (barely) believe they did. Hence, I'm not sure how much "participation" there was if all it took was the snap of God's fingers or the push of a button. If we take the temple version more literally (I don't take it literally at all) then HM did not participate. If we allow some leeway to be a bit figurative or symbolic, then she could have. If we are very open to thinking outside the tiny little Mormon shoebox, she probably did.
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Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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LookingHard
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Re: Did Heavenly Mother participate in the creation?

Post by LookingHard » 23 Feb 2017, 07:10

I agree that we need to be clear this is speculation, but to me I feel that the beauty in the world leads me to say yes. That is a bit of my marriage is I am more worried about the structural integrity and insulation properties of the walls of our home and my wife does 99% of the decoration as I have very little skill in that area.

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Orson
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Re: Did Heavenly Mother participate in the creation?

Post by Orson » 23 Feb 2017, 08:01

Joni wrote:1. Do you think Heavenly Mother(s) participated in the creation of the earth?
Yes, of course.
Joni wrote:2. If yes, how do you reconcile that with the fact that the creation is depicted in the temple as being an all male endeavor?
The temple is symbolic, meant to point us toward deeper truths. All scripture and revelation is subject to the understanding and interpretation of men, who see through a glass darkly. God cannot reveal to man more than he is able to accept or comprehend.

I believe science can help reveal details of the creation and the state of our universe.
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Joni
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Re: Did Heavenly Mother participate in the creation?

Post by Joni » 23 Feb 2017, 08:08

Orson wrote:All scripture and revelation is subject to the understanding and interpretation of men, who see through a glass darkly. God cannot reveal to man more than he is able to accept or comprehend.
In 2017, shouldn't we be able to accept and comprehend the idea that a woman (or some number of women) participated in the creation? If our current depiction is incorrect, God can correct it any time He chooses. Then again, if God had been more forthright about Her participation in the first place, maybe mortal man wouldn't have ever developed the idea that the really important work of creation can't be done by women. Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

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DarkJedi
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Re: Did Heavenly Mother participate in the creation?

Post by DarkJedi » 23 Feb 2017, 08:19

Joni wrote:
Orson wrote:All scripture and revelation is subject to the understanding and interpretation of men, who see through a glass darkly. God cannot reveal to man more than he is able to accept or comprehend.
In 2017, shouldn't we be able to accept and comprehend the idea that a woman (or some number of women) participated in the creation? If our current depiction is incorrect, God can correct it any time He chooses. Then again, if God had been more forthright about Her participation in the first place, maybe mortal man wouldn't have ever developed the idea that the really important work of creation can't be done by women. Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
It is also possible that our understanding of gender is incorrect or that there actually is no gender beyond earth. That is, it is possible that spirits and Gods are genderless. If that's the case, HM had as much role in the creation as HF because there would be neither father nor mother in that sense. "Father" could be a misinterpretation of early prophets which has been perpetuated over time. I agree that God could fix such a misunderstanding but God does not seem to do much (if any) of that sort of thing.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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NightSG
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Re: Did Heavenly Mother participate in the creation?

Post by NightSG » 23 Feb 2017, 08:34

DarkJedi wrote:Hence, I'm not sure how much "participation" there was if all it took was the snap of God's fingers or the push of a button.
Probably something along the lines of:
"Hey honey, hold My beer and watch this."
"Finish your beer, I'll try to make something useful out of this mess."

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Holy Cow
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Re: Did Heavenly Mother participate in the creation?

Post by Holy Cow » 23 Feb 2017, 08:47

I don't believe the creation story is literal at all. I view it as a completely symbolic story. Viewing it as a symbolic story, takes the gender inequality out of the whole thing. I don't believe Adam represents all men, and Eve represents all women. I believe Adam represents Christ, and Eve represents mankind. Wives don't submit to their husbands, as their husbands submit to God. Mankind is asked to follow Christ, as he follows God. He came to the earth to give mankind an example to follow. The serpent was unsuccessful in beguiling Christ, so he beguiles us to try to separate us from Christ and God. Read through the Adam/Eve story again sometime, or think about the temple story, but instead of thinking about Adam and Eve as representing men and women, think about them representing Christ and mankind. It puts a different spin on things. I don't think anybody knows anything about the actual creation, and the creation story is simply a symbolic story written by the jews to explain our relationship with God and the savior that they were waiting for. Just my opinion.
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Ann
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Re: Did Heavenly Mother participate in the creation?

Post by Ann » 23 Feb 2017, 09:52

Joni wrote: 2. If yes, how do you reconcile that with the fact that the creation is depicted in the temple as being an all male endeavor?
By remembering that I don't believe a single thing that JS or BY taught about women specifically. Whenever they single women out, I'm off their doctrinal bus. When they talk about humankind, I listen to see if it rings true.

And what DJ says about creation itself.
"Preachers err by trying to talk people into belief; better they reveal the radiance of their own discovery." - Joseph Campbell

"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." - Marcel Proust

"Therefore they said unto him, How were thine eyes opened? He answered and said unto them, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes...." - John 9:10-11

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hawkgrrrl
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Re: Did Heavenly Mother participate in the creation?

Post by hawkgrrrl » 23 Feb 2017, 10:06

1 - Yes, if it was "created / organized" by beings rather than some other non-interventionist process.
2 - Because it behooves men who love patriarchy to convince women that their role is supportive and ancillary to men, not equal contributors beloved for their wisdom and intelligence. Men have a hard time seeing past our boobies and uteri.

If you're interested in hearing more about why I think this, you should read this post I did several years ago: https://wheatandtares.org/2013/01/22/th ... f-asherah/

The "council of Gods" was never an all male panel. That's a modern invention. Archaeology confirms that there were always both men & women in the pantheons of ancient cultures.

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